Intellectual question: Gaalshireedle-Majeerteen rivalry.

[DawladSade]

Hello to all the contributors of the Gedo Section,

One of the most mystifying occurence in Somali political/social history is the extreme rivalry between beesha Gaalshireedle of Sade and beesha Majeerteen of Harti. It is an intense competition for power and glory that has captivated the attention of all Somalis and has put a strain on the Darood collaboration and attaining of power. It is in fact what has led to a civil war of Hawiye occupying and desecrating the capital city of Darooddom, a city built by Darood men and was the seat of the glorious Darood reign over all Somalis and even at one point (in the 77' war) of that of all East Africa.

We are of the young generation and I am starting a discussion between us young men to discuss this and some of its underlying problems as well as its resolution. I have invited several more urbane Majeerteens such as Spragga and Padishah with the explicit intention of coming to terms over the rivalry and what possible routes we can take to put it to rest once and for all.

But because this our house and the Majeerteens are our guest, I am giving them the opportunity to start and explain their side of the story. We are looking forward to reading their concerns about beesha Gaalshiredle, what their view on our part of the rivalry is, and what we need to do that can lead the rivalry to disintegrate.

Thank you all,

DawladSade




p.s. Saddam no trolling and all other members, this is an intellectual discussion and we will until our guests arrive.

[Warsame101]

Let me commerate this thread with a historical picture signifying the nature of this topic.


http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u111 ... dBarre.jpg

[zackabdul]

DS,

Sxb I got into politics recently and I see this rivalry as nothing more then a grudge, something similar to why the Isaaq want their independence. Honestly I really don't want anything to do with any other Darood subclan due to the fact that my kin has been betrayed(remember I'm not speaking for every MJ). Dulbahante was bought by Siyad Barre and the same tactic was used to lure in the helpless Ogaden. Our thirst for power left us deserted and I'll tell you the problem!.. it's that the MJs will not allow any other Darood subclan to lead and THAT is the problem.. WE have always seen our selves as the leaders of Darood and our ignorance and pride will not allow us to be in 2nd place to either Mareexan, Ogaden, Dulbahante or any other Darood subclan..

The main thing keeping us away from even negotiating(Having a Darood shir) is the fact that we were persecuted and that Siyad Barre(AUN) went after the innocent.. SO we have the mentality that ALL Mareexan did this to us but that's not the case.. My grandmother(My grandfathers ex-wife), I visit her everyday and always to seems to preach Daroodnimo brotherhood to me.. She is a Reer Shirwac( Reer Ugas Shermarke) women who gave birth to many children(my uncles) Ma'shallah.. (The Ugas is her uncle) but my point being MJs seem to believe that Mareexan have nothing but ill hatred for them... till today she still hides things that happened to my grandfather so that I won't create hatred for innocent people who had nothing to do with it.. (The Mareexan civilian population)

The Kismayu issue is another problem, personally I feel as if you guys are taking something that isn't yours.. My Cusman Maxmuud kin lived there for centuries and built houses and businesses... So how would you feel if MJs came to Beled-Xawo and claimed that they were the natives and rightful citizens of the city? I'm not saying we are the natives but we have a better case then you...

I just got into politics and I wanted to know if Barre Hiraale added any MJ to his administration...

PROBLEMS:

1. MJs still holding a grudge against the Mareexan because of what happened 70s and 80s..(MJs politically excluded) Other then Morgan who was the son in law..

2. The Kismayu debacle.

3. MJs don't like to see any other Darood lead.

[Sadaam_Mariixmaan]

it is very simple here your answer

the power to control Daarood Ismaaciil and control the fates of Irrir Scourge


VERY SIMPLE

[DawladSade]

Zack,

Waad mahadsantahay for responding. We shall then wait for the rest of the invited men and we will summarize your central points and give a befitting rebuttal.

[Cilmiile]

Daarood baan walaalayn lahaa Warasadiisiiye
Wacad baan u kala qaad lahaa wadar ahaantoode

[Spragga Benz]

Marka hore waan idin salaamey, salaan kadib waxaan qabanqaabiyaha shirkan ee walaalkey Dawladsade uga mahadnaqaya fursaddaan qaaliga ah oo aan arimo muhiim ah oo labada beelood Mareexaan iyo Majeerteen quseyso ku tebin karno.

To identify Majeerteen's problems with Mareexaan:


1- First of all the KISMAAYO issue. We believe that Kismaayo is as much Harti deegaan as Gedo is Mareexaan's. If you look back in history, the Harti and Leelkase were the first Daarood settlers of the Jubba coastal area. So for Mareexaan now to occupy Kismaayo is as grave as Majeerteen militias in Garbahaarey.

We know why it's important for Mareexaan to have a foothold in Kismaayo, but in our eyes that doesn't justify this gardaro and we see it as pure greed. We are prepared to share the city with our Daarood brothers: Sade and Absame, but we cannot be denied our rightful position in Kismaayo.

The entire Isaaq live on top of each other in Hargeisa and they even have clans like the Garxajis who have legitimate deegaan in the city, yet accept the local reign of the Sacad Muuse of the Habar Awal.

Let's not return to childish rants and bicker about Kablalax being too weak and scrared to attack Sade. Reer idin ka xigo ma jiro, so you know what Kablalax is capable of. Kablalax clans have a history of putting the Hawiyes and Isaaqs in their place for centuries.

There are several factors as to why we have not attacked Sade yet, most of them concerning TFG prioritising Xamar at the moment, but an important one is that we as Daaroods want to settle this by Xeer. The Hawiye can be bombed, we don't give a shit. The dameero promised us bloodshed in Puntland, marka si fiican baanu nafta ka qabaneynaa xayawaanadan. But madaama aad ehelkeena tihiin, we are prepared to settle this through Xeer Daarood instead of brute force.



There are more matters, but this is the most important issue by far. I would like ragga Mareexaan to address the grievances put forward.




Aad baad uu mahadsantihiin and DawladSade gaar ahaan.

[Luq_Ganane]

Spranga,

If your point is 'Who lived in Kismayo longer, Harti or Marehan' then ofcourse Harti did. I think you have to go back to 1991, when the Hutu slut Omar Jess was committing a war of exitrmination against Harti. Marehan were in Gedo, recovering, and then Morgan asked for Marehans help in liberating Kismayo. Marehan just as tehy did in Galkacioyo, went and helped capture Kismayo for you guys. Marehan and MJ's were living in peace there, until Morgan starting going crazy, and bringing people from Bari, to run things, and totally started to mistreat, and humiliate Marehans there. Finally Marehans said F it, and just took the city. The bottom line is Marehan came there in 1991 to HELP Majerten, and lost of men over it. Do you expect Marehan to just leave the city and tell Majerten 'O.K guys, its safe now, go right on in'??? We're not saviors. If we came somewhere and opened it with our blood do you think they'll just give it up without a fight? Most recent example, after the ICU, joint Marehan/Majerten militia were controlling Kismayo. Again, MJ's being the power in the city, starting bringing ppl all the way from Puntland, to run things in the city. Again Marehan rejected this and fought. Personally I think Majerten kibir baa hayo, and they want to dominate and control Marehan the way they do with their Harti brothers, and Ogaden (Sigh.....). Now the question is are MJ's willing to fairly share power? If the answer is no, then there gonna have to take Kismayo by force.

[DawladSade]

Luq-Ganane, if you don't mind I would like to add a little bit more to what you brought. It is interesting something you have written is my central point in the Kismaayo issue, but then again it is a Sade wide opinion so I am not surprised you brought it also.

First, Spragga and Zak we want to welcome you warmly in our part of the forum and tell you our house is your house, so welcome.

Secondly, if I were to summarize both of your points on the rivalry based relationship between beesha Gaalshiredle and beesha Majeerteen, it is this; that Kismaayo is your city, in the sense that GARBAHAREY is ours, and that our relationship will not improve while we are "occupying" your land. To a lesser extent, Zak argued that your clan, the Majeerteen, sees itself as the sole leader within Darood and that our relationship will also not improve while we are in competition with you.

About Kismaayo:

It is beesha Gaalshireedle's view that Kismaayo, first and foremost, is a Somali city the same way as Mogadishu and that no one owns it more then anyone nor could any clan lay claim to it. Kismaayo was originally captured for Somalis by Sade pioneers who would have even went to the entrance of Nairobi and beyond had not the British put a halt to it. Beesha Sade however being a pioneering Somali nomadic clan left the area and continued to graze all the way to southern Ethiopia and northern Kenya. Since that time Kismaayo has been controlled by minorities who settled the place such as the Bajuni and others. It was never an important city, until the 70's when the Americans showed interest in it and built its port. Prior to that it has always been a very unremarkable and small Somali city in comparison.

Infact, today Kismaayo is the second largest city in Somalia, but before the 70's and even in the 60's, Baydhabo, Beled-Weyne, Dhuusamareeb, etc were all more important and larger then it was. That leads the importance and size of Kismaayo to the modern era when the superpowers showed attention to the place, built its port, and president Siad took advantage of the opportunity to develop by bringing in people there. A natural case presented itself in the form of helping drought victims, when president Siad Barre, alle hau naxariisto, implanted many a Harti people who were ravaged by the Dabo-dheer drought. They in turn called for their relatives and so while the Mareexaans all went to Mogadishu, the Harti made way into Kismaayo in the 80's which is the cause of your prominence there during that time. I am sure you can find many Harti who were born in Kismaayo in the 80's and late 70's but none of their fathers would have been born there in the same way many Mareexaans call Xamar their birthplace throughout the 80's and 70's but none of their parents would have been born there.

To continue, the current squabble over Kismaayo has foundations in this; the civil war and the actions of Morgan. It is not a secret that where most Mareexaans went to Gedo for safety in 1991, almost all the Majeerteens went to Kismaayo, because that was the nearest place that had a Darood name that you could seek safety. It is also not a secret that it was Mareexaan that came and kicked Cumar Jees out of the city when he treated your refugees wrongly. While things were at that stage, Mareexaans NEVER claimed Kismaayo and actually left it to you. Most of them went back to Gedo where the SNF vs. Al Itixaad war was beginning.

No Mareexaan gave a single thought to Kismaayo until all of a sudden the world heard our small number of ilmo adeero there were being badly treated by Majeerteen who were emboldened by a fear of Ogaadeen of Mareexaan coming back again which made them sit quiet and lack of other competitors there. You did extremely unforgivable things which led Beesha Sade to rethink the wisdom of having captured the place for you. To add insult to injury, you threw out, you actually threw out, going house to house, door to door our masaakiin people who lived there who had no protection. That is when Mareexaan decided to capture Kismaayo from you once and for all and because Gedo could not afford to send any soldiers there (that time being the most heaviest fighting in Gedo and even Ethiopia being involved), a Mareexaan army from Caabudwaaq was brought down with few Cayr guarding them through Hawiye lands.

Today. Our view is this; that we have shed too much blood for Kismaayo, from the expulsions of Caydiid and Jees, to etc for us to ever relinquish Kismaayo's reign to anyone. Many of our people moved there and a whole generation was born there, forever calling that place their birthplace in the same way your 80's sons call it their birthplace. We have established businesses, built houses, settled, controlled the politics and the economy of the place for a decade now which has entrenched us in everyday life there. We have established ties to people, have even settled in the countryside, and Gedo has found a seaport. Kismaayo has become our Mogadishu and we are in every sense of the word the Majority of the place and, because it is the emotional significance of the civil war to us, is forever sketched into our hearts. To beesha Gaalshiredly, Kismaayo is not negotiable in any agreement which does not allow us to be in the most important advantage. The blood we shed guarantees us that right.

We believe the Majeerteen have Boosaaso, and we also understand the Majeerteen will never sustain control of anywhere in the south because Hawiye will not let you. We would be foolish to give allow you any important establishment there. You are allowed to settle there and none trespasses on your rights, but ruling the place is out of the topic and will not be allowed by anyone. You cannot sustain a holding of Kismaayo.

That is Beesha Gaalshireedle's view on Kismaayo. I will allow the other Sades now to contribute their commentary.

[Luq_Ganane]

DS,

My sentiments exactly. I think its crazy to think we'll just walk out of the place, and say 'these guys have been here for a couple of years before us, so lets all just leave'. How many wars did we fight over this place? We fought Caydeed and his slut Jess, oromos, pakistanis, united hutus, sudanis etc. and lost so many people to that war, Morgan like 5 different time, etc. The bottom line is Marehan are there to stay. Also, I don't mean to offend any of our MJ friends but Kablalax ain't shyt, and you know it. The only qabil that could get anything done in that group is MJ. The only way Kismayo could be out of our grip, is US NAVY Gunships,AC 130 hellicoptors or Xabashi. Heck, we'll even fight the Xabashis to the death, but I don't think they want the drama. Anything short of that is not going to get it done. However, I don't think any Sades have any problem with MJ's possibly having a part of the new administration, and settling in the city. We're not HUTUS. We believe in Dawladnimo, Nadaam and Mamul. We're not down with Gumeysi. We would never humiliate our ehel, the way Morgan tried to take advantage of us while we were overstreatched fighting in Gedo, Mudug etc.

[Padishah]

Zackabdul and Spragga are more qualified than I am in speaking on the specifics of this topic.

I, however, have ONE thing to say. This squabble over Kismayo is pointless, seeing as Somalia is going to Federated, and Kismayo cannot be considered an overseas possession of Puntland. It will, most probably, be considered part of whatever Alliance that comes out of the Jubba Area.

I'm sure if those there set aside such emotional considerations to the place and approached it dispassionately and with the intention of compromise and negotiation, it can be settled. But while we claim 'we were there first' and 'we spilt a lot of blood for it', we'll be in this rut.`

[Warsame101]

DS,

Very good post . You hit the nail on its head.

Harti's presence in the Jubbaland has always been miniscule, particulary when setting up a solid militia.

Louis Massignon mentions in his work "Annuaire du monde musulman" that around 1890, when Mareexaan was still in the process of migrating to Jubbas, the Jubbaland population consisted of 70,000 Mareexaan, 70,000 Ogaden and 3,000 Harti.

[sadeboi]

I would like to just touch on one point that our friend spragga made.

Which is that his clan and their leader, abdullahi yusef, are trying to solve this thing peacefully. I believe that to be a bunch of crap, and insult to our intelligence. We are fully aware that abdullahi yusef, with the blessing of his clan, tired and are still trying to get Ethiopians to attack beesha SADE, we have seen numerous kablalax leaders (mainly mj's) crying on the radio that "terrorist" are in Kismayo and they need to be kicked out. This is also proven by how Abdullahi Yusef has not spoken about the Kismayo incident publically thus so far; also, the comment [argagaxiso ba kismaayo joogto] of ghedi could not have been heard around the world had it not been approved by Abdullahi yusef. You lot believed that since your "the government" and your wish to bombard Muqdisho and squash the Hawiyes was answered that beesha SADE, out of fear, will be obedient and of servitude. The Kismayo problem today is caused by your greed and kiber [having alliance with tigres] and the SADE community not willing to succumb and give up so easily what hundreds of its boys died for.

[Spragga Benz]

First of all more Majeerteen snetters need to be invited to this shir. Padishah and I for instance are isku jufo hoose within Reer Xirsi/Cumar Maxamuud, so somewhat more diversification in the MJ participants group is in order. There are plenty out there, just make a thread dissing Puntland and we'll get a flood.

Can a secret group be arranged through the Admin. I rather discuss certain sensitive issues with you in a more private setting. I'm sure you feel the same way.


[quote="Padishah"]Zackabdul and Spragga are more qualified than I am in speaking on the specifics of this topic.

I, however, have ONE thing to say. This squabble over Kismayo is pointless, seeing as Somalia is going to Federated, and Kismayo cannot be considered an overseas possession of Puntland. It will, most probably, be considered part of whatever Alliance that comes out of the Jubba Area.

I'm sure if those there set aside such emotional considerations to the place and approached it dispassionately and with the intention of compromise and negotiation, it can be settled. But while we claim 'we were there first' and 'we spilt a lot of blood for it', we'll be in this rut.`[/quote]


Padishah, I'm actually speaking for the Harti Waamo bro. The Harti in Jubbaland number less than the Absame and Sade, but they do have a very important position in a future Jubbaland nonetheless. Kismaayo, as DS reiterated, is a Somali city and not just some tuulo being fought over between Reer Miyi. I'm of the opinion that the Harti Jubbalanders need to secure their position in Kismaayo, it has nothing to do with Puntland. The fact that the mainstream Harti up north have a relatively well developed autonomous state with a bustling port, does not mean we as Harti should relinquish our stake in Jubbaland and thank goodness this is and never will be the case.


Zack's statement is true, MJ do view themselves as the leader clan of the Daarood and more importantly the clan most entitled to rule the country. Because you think the same way about yourselves ever since Siyaad Barre AUN assumed presidency, we will continue to collide on this matter. MJ's desire to secure their future and be on the top of the ladder like yesteryears manifests itself in Puntland state which was erected in august 1998 almost a decade ago and the attaining of the TFG presidency in october 2004.


So you can say these statements: "You allready have Boosaaso, let us have Kismaayo", "We have spilt blood for this city", "We own houses and businesses in that city" etc. all you want. It doesn't change the fact that we, not only as Harti, but as Kablalax will never accept Sade rule of Kismaayo. The maamul devised by His Excellency Abdullahi Yusuf for the Lower Jubba and Kismaayo is exactly Kablalax's take on how the maamul should be shared. More concessions from our part can be made to reach a more satisfying compromis for you, but forget about turning Kismaayo into an extension of Gedo-Galguduud.


To reply to my man sadeboi:

you said: "The Kismayo problem today is caused by your greed and kiber [having alliance with tigres] and the SADE community not willing to succumb and give up so easily what hundreds of its boys died for."

and I reply: "The Kismayo problem today is caused by your greed and kiber [having alliance with hawiyes] and the KABLALAX community not willing to succumb and give up so easily what hundreds of its boys died for."

and FYI, Mareexaan is benefitting from Tigreys as well, so this alliance with Tigrey has no legs to stand on. Wasn't it DS who was so jubilant about the supposed shift of ET ties with MJ to MR?



We're not gonna see eye to eye on this issue, we're just not. Let me just say this, I strongly support removing the tribal Mareexaan militias from Kismaayo by the TFG. I rather have it through wadahadal than dhiigdaadasho.

[DawladSade]

Spragga, we have to differentiate between the usage of terms. We recognize you as beesha Majeerteen, and at the max you can use beesha Harti. Kablalax is not something that exists. Beesha Gaalshireedle is more likely to sign lasting peace with you then you are with beesha Absame and beesha Gaalshireedle is more likely to sign peace with beesha Absame then you are like.

You wrote "beesha Kablalax (I read it as Majeerteen) will never allow beesha Sade rule over Kismaayo and that is manifested in Abdullahi Yusuf's mamul" and I respond "beesha Sade will never allow non-Sade rule over Kismaayo and that is manifested in their actions of seizing control over the city by force". Ka gudab, to Kismaayo I say may the strongest win!


Now on the topic of you desire to rule. Nothing you have done manifested itself in you becoming president. The legacy of Majeerteen in the modern era is that of one man and it is not a surprise if Abdullahi Yusuf dies today so would Majeerteen have died with him in national matters. Abdullahi Yusuf has to this day danced with Ethiopians and has reached the top because of Ethiopians who need one of theirs in control of Somalia. Beesha Sade does not believe nor is persuaded by the Majeerteen self-haughty benign statement of "we are leaders". I am afraid that is not so and more then likely the TFG would have long dissolved when it was unloved, and ignored before the rise of the Maxkamado and the West's obsession with terrorism led it to support the TFG. Prior to that we all remember how even the U.S was against the TFG succeeding with ever so often drafting press statements publicly against the foreign troops wish, the lifting of the arms embargo, etc.

It is not a secret modern Majeerteen will go with Abdullahi Yusuf to his grave, when ever Allah has destined him to go. I am sure you understand that more then I do.


Padishah:

[quote]his squabble over Kismayo is pointless, seeing as Somalia is going to Federated, and Kismayo cannot be considered an overseas possession of Puntland. It will, most probably, be considered part of whatever Alliance that comes out of the Jubba Area.[/quote]

Most intellectual Majeerteens I have spoken to understand this and accept it. Whatever the outcome maybe Garbaharey and Beled-Xaawo are forever tied to Kismaayo.