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Separation of Religion from Corruptio

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RebelLion
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Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby RebelLion » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:51 pm

"It is true Islam guides us (Muslims) on all aspects of life such as legal, social, political, financial (banking) etc. However, separation of religion from modern politics is not distancing from the path of Allah. It is to safeguard the position of religion as the moral guardian of society. It is also to spare both religion and politics from damaging one another. Modern politics attracts evils such as greed, envy, corruption, selfishness and many more. Mixing religion and politics will benefit neither religion nor politic"

Read the whole thing here. Good article.
http://www.hiiraan.com/op2/2008/july/se ... ption.aspx

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby FAH1223 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:55 pm

Sharia is the basis of law, it is the source of our law and it will be enforced.

There is a difference between politics and the law.

Somalia has clan politics, but no laws to keep our people in check.

Cutting off hands for tuug (provided the conditions are met), flogging drug dealers, killing rapists, ect will bring Somalis back. :up:

Now if he is saying mixing clan politics with the religion should not be done, he is right on that alone. But Somalia and every other Muslim country should have their laws in accordance to our religion.


Things like marriage, capital punishment, adultery, ect, ect are clear in stone and have their requirements be it the marriage contract, four witnesses, ect...The culema are in charge of that also

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby RebelLion » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:13 pm

FAH

Read the article before commenting, the author makes some good points. He is not anti-shariah, but he rightfully recognizes that politics draws only those who are hungary for power. And if we look at the examples of other countries that mix religion with politics saudi arabia, nigeria etc, it hasn't been good. As I've always said, good shariah is ideal for all muslim countries. But I'm suspicious of it's implementation in somalia.

Flogging drug dealers, killing rapists, cutting off the hands of theifs is all well and good. But we have to create a society that limits these kinds of people and that should be our primary concern as muslims and not punishment alone.

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Haddad » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:41 pm

Clan politics is practiced by secular Somalis, not the conservative ones. Secular Somalis cannot mix clan politics and Shariica, because they lack knowledge of Islam (which they neither practice). That's why they rule with man-made laws (democracy, communism, anarchy, etc). What's more, Gaalos will not allow secular Somalis to rule with Shariica. That leaves us conservative Somalis; the only ones who can rule with Shariica, because they don't take orders from Gaalos.

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby RebelLion » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:44 pm

Hadad

Is shieck indhacadde a secular muslim?

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Shirib » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:46 pm

RebelLion wrote:Hadad

Is shieck indhacadde a secular muslim?


Stop calling him a damn Sheik

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby 934 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:51 pm

Shaikh indha cade?

I think CY is million times more of a shaikh than indha cade and million times more close to Jannah than that xaar!

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Haddad » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:59 pm

RebelLion wrote:Hadad

Is shieck indhacadde a secular muslim?
Example of secular Somalis:

-Abdullahi Yusuf
-Ali Mahdi
-Dahir Riyale
-General Morgan
-Hiraale
-Yalahow
-Qaybdid
-Maxamed Dheere
-Nur Cadde

Example of conservative Somalis:

-Ayrow (AUN)
-Abu Mansur
-Dahir Aweys

With regard to Indhacadde, he used to be secular when he was a warlord. He was conservative when he was part of the forces who kicked the secular warlords (Qaybdid, Yalahow, Dheere, etc) out of Somalia. Because he isn't fighting with Al-Shabaab against Somalia's occupation, because he spent a lot time in Eritrea doing nothing useful for Somalis, his status as a conservative Muslim has changed. Dahir Aweys is still a conservative Muslim, because he never was secular, and because he has a long history of involvement in Islamic issues and the welfare of Muslims.

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby 934 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:11 pm

Dahir Aweys is a bitter old fart and his days are numbered.

That focker will get what he deserve...

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby RebelLion » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:23 pm

Haddad wrote:With regard to Indhacadde, he used to be secular when he was a warlord. He was conservative when he was part of the forces who kicked the secular warlords (Qaybdid, Yalahow, Dheere, etc) out of Somalia. Because he isn't fighting with Al-Shabaab against Somalia's occupation, because he spent a lot time in Eritrea doing nothing useful for Somalis, his status as a conservative Muslim has changed. Dahir Aweys is still a conservative Muslim, because he never was secular, and because he has a long history of involvement in Islamic issues and the welfare of Muslims.



So what is indhacadde now? in transition? Some middle place between secular somali's and conservative somalis? Is everyone either secular or conservative somali in your mind?

By that same rubric, why isn't dahir aweys categorized with indhacadde, they have both been inseparable politics and believe wise?

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Haddad » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:25 pm

934 wrote:Dahir Aweys is a bitter old fart and his days are numbered.

That focker will get what he deserve...
Why are you judging him?

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Firefly » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:27 pm

RebelLion:- The writer seems to be advocating for secularism in Somalia. That's quite worrying. How can we separate religion from the state? The Divine Law has been sent down for a purpose, and it is far superior to man made law. What destroyed Somalia is tribalism, and the only way forward is to establish the Law of Allah (swt) in everyday affairs.

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby xidigow » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:29 pm

934 wrote:Shaikh indha cade?

I think CY is million times more of a shaikh than indha cade and million times more close to Jannah than that xaar!


KHAAF RABAK. and stay away Allah's work. He is the only who decides who is gonna go to janaha and NAAr. AY and Indhocade, allah un baa og cida janah galeysa iyo cida kale, adigu ha ku aakhiro seegin.

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Shirib » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:30 pm

Firefly wrote:RebelLion:- The writer seems to be advocating for secularism in Somalia. That's quite worrying. How can we separate religion from the state? The Divine Law has been sent down for a purpose, and it is far superior to man made law. What destroyed Somalia is tribalism, and the only way forward is to establish the Law of Allah (swt) in everyday affairs.


:up: :up:

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Re: Separation of Religion from Corruptio

Postby Padishah » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:55 am

This is a crucial point that was even recognised by the Companions of the Prophet (PBUH).

For most of civilised human history, there has been a functional division between the Executive, in which leadership is vested in, and the Judiciary, which handled Law and the settling of disputes. Current Political Theory adds a third aspect to traditional governmental forms; the Legislature.

Now, for the Judiciary to remain fair and impartial, undue influence from the Executive, usually in the form of arrogant Monarchs, or worse, opportunistic politicians, have to be kept separate from the Judges and the Scholars, because if there isn't, then there is the tendency to abuse this influence and pervert the course of justice.

What is worse than this particular situation is for actual Scholars to be involved in directly ruling a country, like Iran, because everything they do, whether Islamic or not, will be attributed to the Religion. Power has a habit of corrupting those who wield it, which means that corruption almost always transfers from the perpetrators, to the Religion itself, de-legitimising it, making people lose faith, which is disastrous.

This is why there needs to be a clear separation between the Executive and the Judiciary, in our case, between the Presidents and Premiers, and the Qadi'a and their Courts.

Just because the Western World abandoned the idea of the 'Divine Right to Rule', in favour of separating political influence over Religion, and Religious legitimisation of dirty politics, does not mean its a tainted concept.


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