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John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

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Twisted_Logic
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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Twisted sees the secular-materialistic-ignorant-hypocritical western societies as the way forward. Off course Islam is a danger to such thinking.
This is a gross misstatement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Islam. There is everything wrong with today's Muslims

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Twisted, arintan ma ruun baa?
:lol:

I don't think sadeboi and his brother voltage can be used as my spokesmen :lol:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Cali_Gaab » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:36 pm

For a man who you regard as a muslim he surely didn't show any signs of following the islamic teachings at any stage during his leadership.

Why did he call for the abolition of Islamic institutions?
Did he not introduce nationalism to the Turks and conformed to Western society?

Exactly, but you fail to understand he is being appreciated because he had nothing to do with Islam and abolished everything Islamic from his country. This what twisted would love to see happen in Somalia.
Religion is between a Man and his Creator. That is something I really believe. I don't think anyone has any right to tell me how I should live my private life. Once religion is relegated to the whims of what Ataturk called the " prejudiced confessors," then society as large suffers and injustice becomes rampant. Just look at Iran and currently Somalia.

When Ataturk inaugurated the Turkish Parliament, he opened it with verses of the Quran.
quote]

But he at the same time has gotten rid of the Shariah law and replaced it with man made laws and saw Europe and the West as the way forward, Islam was a hinderness.
Are you trying to say that opening a parliament with verses from the Quran could be used as a subsitute, it seems like you're trying to justify the unjustified.

You're right in saying that the religion is between one and his creator but what's going on in Somalia right now is not the fault of Islam and its teachings, it's the fault of the people and their interpretation of the diin.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:43 pm


You're right in saying that the religion is between one and his creator but what's going on in Somalia right now is not the fault of Islam and its teachings, it's the fault of the people and their interpretation of the diin.
Exactly. This is why Ataturk believed that one shouldn't decide how another person should live their lives. In Somalia today, people are calling each other "Takfiir," "Rida," and "Murtad." Everyone can come up with 100 verses to support their absurd ideas and the sad thing is they have the guns to enforce their mode of life on others. Hence, Ataturk was right and infact visionary in anticipating the destructive influences men who claim to be working by God's will can have on a society. Turkey is a secular state, yes. There are technical problems with its secular laws, yes, but compared to extremist Saudi Arabia, one would rate Turkey a better place to live and work. Even Iran has the same problems. There are no Sunni Mosques in Tehran and there are no Shia Mosques in Saudi Arabia. Turkey on the other hand is a diverse country with citizens that belong to Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

I salute Ataturk's visionary leadership :up:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby sadeboi » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:53 pm

Listen twisted, if you believed that today's Muslim societies are corrupt (which I agree) then you would actually start gaining more knowledge of Islam and the history of the Muslim and see what lead to our downfall. Instead of following and admiring the man who reformed the Islamic Ottaman state into a liberal secular state, giving the European defeaters of the Ottoman state a psychological win too. A man who see fits that the laws of man is more righteous in governance then those of Allahs is your hero. How then did I misstate you?


You blame Muslim Societies yet judge and define Islam by such actions from those societies. Your problem is not with the societies it is with religion itself.


Cali-gaab, don't listen to his BS.

If your a Muslim person who has some knowledge of the religion---I will say I am probably one of the least knowledgeable people on this earth--- you would understand that shariah law, the law of governing of an Islamic state, does not care for the individual and his own worship of God or lack of it. Shariah Law was set in place so as to not have a morally corrupt society, it's foundation is having a morally righteous society and ensuring examples of it are visible to individual so as to follow and worship God rightly.

Hence, why one must need four witness to be punished for zina according to shariah law who actually saw the display of sexual intercourse. What and how the individual does in private is between him and his lord. But if the individuals act in ways to corrupt the society shariah is in place.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby ModerateMuslim » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:56 pm

the nifaaq on this thread stinks.

clearly, TW has left the fold of islam, but why are the moderate muslims, of all people, telling someone whether they're muslim or not? doesn't making takfeer go against their deen?


seems like the murjites have no principles to stand upon. rather, they rely on - and follow - their desires and emotions, which fluctuate quite a bit depending on state of mind/mood/environment etc, to say the least.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:03 pm

Listen twisted, if you believed that today's Muslim societies are corrupt (which I agree) then you would actually start gaining more knowledge of Islam and the history of the Muslim and see what lead to our downfall. Instead of following and admiring the man who reformed the Islamic Ottaman state into a liberal secular state, giving the European defeaters of the Ottoman state a psychological win too. A man who see fits that the laws of man is more righteous in governance then those of Allahs is your hero. How then did I misstate you?


You blame Muslim Societies yet judge and define Islam by such actions from those societies. Your problem is not with the societies it is with religion itself.


Cali-gaab, don't listen to his BS.

If your a Muslim person who has some knowledge of the religion---I will say I am probably one of the least knowledgeable people on this earth--- you would understand that shariah law, the law of governing of an Islamic state, does not care for the individual and his own worship of God or lack of it. Shariah Law was set in place so as to not have a morally corrupt society, it's foundation is having a morally righteous society and ensuring examples of it are visible to individual so as to follow and worship God rightly.

Hence, why one must need four witness to be punished for zina according to shariah law who actually saw the display of sexual intercourse. What and how the individual does in private is between him and his lord. But if the individuals act in ways to corrupt the society shariah is in place.
Ataturk fought and sacrificed for the Ottoman Empire. He was the ONLY undefeated commander of its forces. So your argument that he defeated or even contributed to its fall is none-sense. That empire was out of sync with time and had simply too much enemies. The Arabs were digging its graves in the deserts of Hijaz and other parts of Arabia and the Armenians and others were fighting it in Europe. There had to be a real change and Ataturk was right in diagnosing the early symptoms of a dying empire. Today Turkey is the leading Muslim power thanks to his visionary leadership.

Secondly, no-one has any-problems with Sharia Law. The question is who should supervise its implementation? Man is a political animal and people will politicize/personalize religion to accomplish some very selfish agendas. Somalia is a wonderful case in point. Fortunately, Turkey doesn't suffer from these ills. Its constitution keeps these opportunists and pseudo-religious men at bay.

Women can't wear the headscarf to schools and government offices in Turkey. But keep in mind women can't drive in Saudi Arabia too.

It is actually good that your brought your zina argument. Sharia says that we must have 4 witnesses to punish the culprits. Can you realistically expect 4 witnesses in rape incidents? In Kismayo, not long ago, a teenage girl was raped, she was stoned to death and the criminals got away, because she didn't have the 4 required witnesses.

I don't think that is the Sharia God gave to us.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:03 pm

the nifaaq on this thread stinks.

clearly, TW has left the fold of islam, but why are the moderate muslims, of all people, telling someone whether they're muslim or not? doesn't making takfeer go against their deen?


seems like the murjites have no principles to stand upon. rather, they rely on - and follow - their desires and emotions, which fluctuate quite a bit depending on state of mind/mood/environment etc, to say the least.
Bro, go watch a tape of porn. You will gain much needed clarity :up:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby AbdiWahab252 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:47 am

TL,

Excellent points.

Today, we have clowns issuing "Diplomas" to get into Heaven to brainwash kids into becoming suicide bombers in Somalia. There are now "religious" clerics who determine whether you are Muslim or not.

Strong secularism is the way to go. Attaturk was just the most honest of those middle east leaders. He never perverted the religion to extend his influence like Saddam Hussein, or Hosni Mubarak who have pretended to seem to be religious or even Zia.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby hanqadh » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:52 am

the nifaaq on this thread stinks.

clearly, TW has left the fold of islam.
:shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby hanqadh » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:57 am

Attaturk destroyed islam in turkey. you guys are arguing that religion has nothing to do state, however when attatruk came to power did he not force people to follow a new way of life, what gave him the right to enter the private live's of people by banning islamic hats, restricting the hijab and cencoring imams and mosques so that they spoke only with the permission of the state, this man was banaana's he called for the adan to be called in turkish :| he was as they say turkifying the religion.
he was evil and to glorify him is truly a sin.

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:49 pm

TL,

Excellent points.

Today, we have clowns issuing "Diplomas" to get into Heaven to brainwash kids into becoming suicide bombers in Somalia. There are now "religious" clerics who determine whether you are Muslim or not.

Strong secularism is the way to go. Attaturk was just the most honest of those middle east leaders. He never perverted the religion to extend his influence like Saddam Hussein, or Hosni Mubarak who have pretended to seem to be religious or even Zia.
Arabs are hypocrites. Long Life the legacy of Ataturk. He truly was a man ahead of his time :up:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Twisted_Logic » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:50 pm

Attaturk destroyed islam in turkey. you guys are arguing that religion has nothing to do state, however when attatruk came to power did he not force people to follow a new way of life, what gave him the right to enter the private live's of people by banning islamic hats, restricting the hijab and cencoring imams and mosques so that they spoke only with the permission of the state, this man was banaana's he called for the adan to be called in turkish :| he was as they say turkifying the religion.
he was evil and to glorify him is truly a sin.
Ataturk destroyed Arabian machinations :up:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby RebelLion1 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:55 pm

Turkey and Saudi arabia are two extreme political systems somalia should avoid modelling itself after, some middleground between the two is what we need. I think somali youth league and the democratic governments of the 60's was a good mesh of islamic and democratic doctrine. We need to get back to out roots. :up:

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Re: John Drysdale aka Cabaas Idiriis

Postby Wise-Man » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:05 pm

Well, Twisted-Logic is dhuusa-dheere in disguise, so don't bother what he says guys..


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