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Union soo gal

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union
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Re: Union soo gal

Postby union » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:32 pm

It's outrageous because it doesn't match up with the evidence. All the evidence points to evolution over time, and not a sudden creation. 98% of our genome is the same as those of the apes, are they made from clay too?

And like I said, I believe in the virgin birth because I believe that God, on occasion, intervenes in the natural world in miraculous ways. And then you're probably wondering, why do you take one to be only symbolic, and the other one literal? Well because virgin birth is plausible, creation out of clay isn't. Also, how are you so sure that literal interputations of the Qu'ran are so essential?
Virgin birth of a human is not possible at all, what so ever. It is a miracle from God, much like that of Adam. If God can do one, I don't understand why it is hard to believe in the other.

The reason I believe in the literal interpretation is because that is how scholars and everyone else has taken it. Once u start not believing in the literal interpretation of the Quran u start getting touchy and stop believing.

If u say Adam being made of clay is figurative, who is to say Mary a virgin giving birth to Jesus isn't figurative. Moses splitting the red sea isn't figurative. Heaven and hell are figurative. It opens a whole pandora's box. You take Gods words as he say's it. It is not for us to interpret and try to say what he meant.

In theory virgin birth is scientifically possible, but nearly impossible. And if God wanted us to believe that we were created from clay, why did he give us minds that are able to reason and create so much evidence pointing towards evolution? Surly you're not among the deniers who try to discredit the plaint obvious? Like I said earlier, the only way for God to have done this is if he wanted to deceive us, and being deceptive is not the trait of God but of satan and the hypocrites.

And most of the scholars who deny evolution honesty don't know anything about it. They just hear the over simplification and mistruth of "humans came from monkeys" and bam join the bandwagon against it.

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby abdisamad3 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:39 pm

waraa caasho candho..evolution is not something proven you idiot stop acting like evolution is the absolute truth..war waxaan doqon sanaa. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby melo » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:39 pm

It's outrageous because it doesn't match up with the evidence. All the evidence points to evolution over time, and not a sudden creation. 98% of our genome is the same as those of the apes, are they made from clay too?

And like I said, I believe in the virgin birth because I believe that God, on occasion, intervenes in the natural world in miraculous ways. And then you're probably wondering, why do you take one to be only symbolic, and the other one literal? Well because virgin birth is plausible, creation out of clay isn't. Also, how are you so sure that literal interputations of the Qu'ran are so essential?
Virgin birth of a human is not possible at all, what so ever. It is a miracle from God, much like that of Adam. If God can do one, I don't understand why it is hard to believe in the other.

The reason I believe in the literal interpretation is because that is how scholars and everyone else has taken it. Once u start not believing in the literal interpretation of the Quran u start getting touchy and stop believing.

If u say Adam being made of clay is figurative, who is to say Mary a virgin giving birth to Jesus isn't figurative. Moses splitting the red sea isn't figurative. Heaven and hell are figurative. It opens a whole pandora's box. You take Gods words as he say's it. It is not for us to interpret and try to say what he meant.

In theory virgin birth is scientifically possible, but nearly impossible. And if God wanted us to believe that we were created from clay, why did he give us minds that are able to reason and create so much evidence pointing towards evolution? Surly you're not among the deniers who try to discredit the plaint obvious? Like I said earlier, the only way for God to have done this is if he wanted to deceive us, and being deceptive is not the trait of God but of satan and the hypocrites.

And most of the scholars who deny evolution honesty don't know anything about it. They just hear the over simplification and mistruth of "humans came from monkeys" and bam join the bandwagon against it.

Wamal xayaatu-dunyaa illa mataacul Quruur

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby melo » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:40 pm

It's outrageous because it doesn't match up with the evidence. All the evidence points to evolution over time, and not a sudden creation. 98% of our genome is the same as those of the apes, are they made from clay too?

And like I said, I believe in the virgin birth because I believe that God, on occasion, intervenes in the natural world in miraculous ways. And then you're probably wondering, why do you take one to be only symbolic, and the other one literal? Well because virgin birth is plausible, creation out of clay isn't. Also, how are you so sure that literal interputations of the Qu'ran are so essential?
Virgin birth of a human is not possible at all, what so ever. It is a miracle from God, much like that of Adam. If God can do one, I don't understand why it is hard to believe in the other.

The reason I believe in the literal interpretation is because that is how scholars and everyone else has taken it. Once u start not believing in the literal interpretation of the Quran u start getting touchy and stop believing.

If u say Adam being made of clay is figurative, who is to say Mary a virgin giving birth to Jesus isn't figurative. Moses splitting the red sea isn't figurative. Heaven and hell are figurative. It opens a whole pandora's box. You take Gods words as he say's it. It is not for us to interpret and try to say what he meant.

In theory virgin birth is scientifically possible, but nearly impossible. And if God wanted us to believe that we were created from clay, why did he give us minds that are able to reason and create so much evidence pointing towards evolution? Surly you're not among the deniers who try to discredit the plaint obvious? Like I said earlier, the only way for God to have done this is if he wanted to deceive us, and being deceptive is not the trait of God but of satan and the hypocrites.

And most of the scholars who deny evolution honesty don't know anything about it. They just hear the over simplification and mistruth of "humans came from monkeys" and bam join the bandwagon against it.

Wamal xayaatu-dunyaa illa mataacul Quruur

And this world is nothing but a material deception

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby Kukri » Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:47 pm

Evolution is nothing more than fascism disguised as science.

Even union's prophet, mr darwin himself said so.

how can one beleive in Allah and darwins evolution at the same time?

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby union » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:33 am

Great article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... icentenary

Professor Richard Dawkins recently said that most Muslims were creationists, and their children are taught that the theory of evolution is wrong, which causes a huge problem in schools.

He's largely correct, and the Muslim world desperately needs to debate the matter properly without fear, since science can neither prove nor disprove God. Whereas the Christian world, where Charles Darwin first proposed his thesis, has had a century and a half to come to terms with the theory of evolution, it has only begun to be taught rather recently in the Muslim world, where faith and religious practice is still relatively strong.

No wonder then that the theory is opposed by some religious elements, especially those that are ignorant of science. Snazzy websites, videos and books produced by fundamentalist Muslim "creationists" such as those at http://www.harunyahya.com, are obscuring clear scientific thinking.

Creation or evolution? Many believers in God have no problem with an obvious solution: that God created man via evolution. Here is some explanation of this view from a Muslim perspective.
I have a background in physical sciences, not biological ones, but there are parallels. Just as we can see clear evidence for the fact that planets, stars and galaxies evolved very gradually over the last 13 billion years since the big bang and weren't just beamed into existence by God, it would seem intuitive that life in its breathtaking variety on Earth also arose through a gradual evolutionary processes. There are plenty of Muslim biologists who have no doubt about the essential correctness of evolutionary theory.

The Qur'an teaches that humanity began with Adam, whose wife Eve was made "of like nature". The raw materials from which Adam was created are variously described as dust, clay and water, ie a mixture of water and minerals found on earth and in its soil. God completed the creation of Adam, breathed his spirit into him and taught him the names of everything. Since the angels were ignorant of these names, he commanded them to bow down to Adam, to symbolise human superiority over angels due to our free will, intelligence, capacity to understand and express ourselves in eloquent language.

One problem is that many Muslims retain the simple picture that God created Adam from clay, much as a potter makes a statue, and then breathed into the lifeless statue and lo! it became a living human. This is a children's madrasa-level understanding and Muslims really have to move on as adults and intellectuals, especially given the very serious scientific heritage of the medieval Islamic civilisation.

Another objection that is sometimes posed is the following: doesn't evolution denigrate and insult all humans, but especially the prophets of God, by insisting that we all originate from apes? I reply that the theory doesn't insult anyone, but does remind us of the humble origins of our created form. This is nothing new or blasphemous, since numerous Qur'anic verses remind us that we are all created from "dust" via sexual discharges: "despised drops of water". Those verses clearly do not insult the prophets. Meanwhile, our spiritual form remains the most exalted, since it is from the spirit of God breathed into Adam: we exist for the most noble purpose of knowing and loving God, freely and after having been given a choice.

Another irony in this whole debate is that several medieval Islamic thinkers had ideas that were broadly similar to the theory of evolution. The 10th-century Persian philosopher Ibn Miskawayh may have had ideas about the natural world that were, broadly speaking, evolutionist. The 14th-century philosopher Ibn Khaldun wrote:

One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals.

Although Ibn Khaldun wasn't speaking directly about evolution in the modern sense, I don't think he would have had a major problem with Darwin's theory, judging from the passage above. But it is precisely the loss of the heritage of people like Ibn Khaldun that has led to the current, appalling state of science in the Muslim world and the Muslim consciousness.

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby union » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:34 am

Written by an Imam. :up:

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby melo » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:18 am

Union, postkeygii iga jawaab.

Wamal xayaatu-dunyaa illa mataacul Quruur

And this world is nothing but a material deception
I'd rather believe that Allah SWT is testing people's imaan, rather than following what some Kaafir says :up:

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby Awe » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:09 am

Exactly what does gravitational pull/the speed of light have to do with a debate over evolution? And that screen shot doesn't disprove my earlier assertion that the Qu'ran was not meant to teach modern science.


And the very men who discovered the speed of light believed in evolution.
You are really an ignorant kid. First of all you questioned the nature of God and his powers. That alone takes you out of the religion. Secondly I provided a scientific proof of the validity of the Qur'an that could not have been known by our prophet whom you accurately called illiterate in a stagnant pre-medieval society. The question I ask you now is do you know how God created? Do you know the nature of God's creation? Do you know the process in which He formed the human people's continuance? I am astounded that you resort to evolution, a theory that is in place "as long as" the scientific Western community will find out concretely for themselves the nature of man's continuance. It is a place holder. The chairman of the Human Genome project said as much. But you take it as a scientific Law when every single so-called discovery of a bone or a tooth or something disavows old forms of the theory. Recently they discovered a the oldest human fossil, a tooth, in Israel which was enough for some scientist to discard the whole "out of Africa" theory that has existed since the beginning of evolution. It may turn out the theory of evolution itself could be proven false to Western science at some point and what we have so far learned about it now may not even equate to 1/5 of 1/100 of what is truly the nature of Man's continuance. Even so far now, the only concrete evolutionary forms that Western science has gleaned from transitional forms is only existing among the Homo genus. There are no widely accepted transitional fossils ever discovered between Homo Sapiens and Apes although some scientists will find a middle path to say between apes and "our cousins". Everything displayed so far since the founding of the theory has at every turn, even the beginning before it could be clarified, has been notoriously supported politically based on the fact that Christianity has been disproven to the educated Western elite on account of their own human reformations of it so the theory is the only thing the educated elite have. This is why they have so much devotion to one of the most reforming and unstable parts of known science bordering on what they would ironically deem a blind support to religion.

We as Muslims have something different. A book solely composed of God's words entrusted with an illiterate man. When the Muslims were asked what is your miracle. They said the Qur'an is our miracle, because how else an illiterate man and a pre-medieval dark society know that all of life is from water, that the universe is helio-centric rather than geo-centric 5 centuries before the West, or all these other facts:

The Miracle of Birth
[We] then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators! (Qur'an, 23:14)
THE QUR'AN WRITING ABOUT THE NOW ACCEPTED THREE TRIMESTERS OF BIRTH
He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in threefold darkness. That is Allah, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate? (Qur'an, 39:6)
ISLAM WRITING ABOUT THE ORBIT OF THE MOON AND SAYING THE ORBIT IS A "SPHERE" AT A TIME WHEN EARTH WAS CONSIDERED FLAT
And We have decreed set phases for the moon, until it ends up looking like an old date branch. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon nor for the night to outstrip the day; each one is swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 36:39-40)
CORRECT CALCULATION OF THE LUNAR YEAR
In former times a month was calculated as the time between two full moons, or the time it took the Moon to travel around the Earth. According to this, one month was equal to 29 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes. This is known as the "lunar month." Twelve lunar months represent one year, according to the Hijri calendar. However, there is a difference of eleven days between the Hijri calendar and the Gregorian calendar, in which a year is the time it takes the Earth to orbit the Sun. Indeed, attention is drawn to this difference in another verse:

They stayed in their Cave for three hundred years and added nine. (Qur'an, 18:25)

We can clarify the time referred to in the verse thus: 300 years x 11 days (the difference which forms every year) = 3,300 days. Bearing in mind that one solar year lasts 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes and 45.5 seconds, 3,300 days/365.24 days = 9 years. To put it another way, 300 years according to the Gregorian calendar is equal to 300+9 years according to the Hijri calendar. As we can see, the verse refers to this finely calculated difference of 9 years. (Allah knows best.) There is no doubt that the Qur'an, which contains such pieces of information, which transcended the everyday knowledge of the time, is a miraculous revelation.
THE QUR'AN DESCRIBING THE FACT THE EARTH IS ROTATING
You will see the mountains and reckon them to be solid; but they go past like clouds-the handiwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity. He is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 27:88)
THE QUR'AN DESCRIBING THE NOW ACCEPTED 7 LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE
It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things. (Qur'an, 2:29)

Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate. (Qur'an, 41:11-12)
Scientist now approve the seven layers of atmosphere: 1. Troposphere 2. Stratosphere 3. Mesosphere 4. Thermosphere 5. Exosphere 6. Ionosphere 7. Magnetosphere.

THE QUR'AN DESCRIBING THE NOW ACCEPTED 7 LAYERS OF THE EARTH
It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)
Scientists now approve the seven layers of the earth: 1st layer: Lithosphere (water) 2nd layer: Lithosphere (land) 3rd layer: Asthenosphere 4th layer: Upper Mantle 5th layer: Inner Mantle 6th layer: Outer Core 7th layer: Inner Core

THE QUR'AN DESCRIBING THE FORMATION OF PETROL/OIL BEFORE THE CONCEPT WAS EVEN KNOWN TO MAN
Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High: He Who created and moulded; He Who determined and guided; He Who brings forth green pasture, then makes it blackened stubble. (Qur'an, 87:1-5)
THE QUR'AN MENTIONS THE RELATIVITY OF TIME A THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE EINSTEIN
A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count. (Qur'an, 22:47)

He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure. (Qur'an, 32:5)

The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years. (Qur'an, 70:4)
ISLAM DESCRIBES THE EARTH WAS MADE IN 16 BILLION EARTH YEARS, THE SAME TIME SPAN ACCEPTED BY MODERN SCIENTISTS

Your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then settled Himself firmly on the Throne... (Qur'an, 7:54)

One example of the harmony between the Qur'an and modern science is the subject of the age of the universe. Cosmologists estimate the age of the universe as 16-17 billion years. The Qur'an states that the entire universe was created in six days. These two time frames, which may seem contradictory, are actually surprisingly compatible. In fact, both these figures concerning the age of the universe are correct. In other words, the universe was created in six days, as revealed in the Qur'an, and this period corresponds to 16-17 billion years in the way that we experience time.

In 1915 Einstein proposed that time was relative, that the passage of time altered according to space, the speed of the person travelling and the force of gravity at that moment. Bearing in mind these differences in the passage of time, the period of time in which the universe was created as revealed in seven different verses of the Qur'an is actually highly compatible with scientists' estimations. The six-day period revealed in the Qur'an can be thought of as six periods. Because, taking into account the relativity of time, a "day" refers only to a 24-hour period experienced on Earth under current conditions. Elsewhere in the universe, however, at another time and under other conditions, a "day" could refer to a much longer period of time. Indeed, the word "ayyamin" in the period of six days (sittati ayyamin) in these verses (Qur'an 32:4, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59, 57:4, 50:38, and 7:54) means not only "days," but also "age, period, moment, term."

In the first period of the universe, the passage of time took place much faster than that with which we are familiar today. The reason for this is that, at the moment of the Big Bang, our universe was compressed into a very small point. The expansion of the universe and increase in its volume ever since the moment of that explosion has extended the borders of the universe to millions of light years. Indeed, the stretching of space ever since that moment has had very important ramifications for universal time.

The energy at the moment of the Big Bang slowed down the flow of time 1012 (one million million) times. When the universe was created the speed of universal time was higher up to a million million times, as time is experienced today. In other words, a million million minutes on Earth is the equivalent of just one minute in universal time.

When a six-day period of time is calculated according to the relativity of time, it equates to six million million (six trillion) days. That is because universal time flows a million million times faster than time on Earth. Calculated in terms of years, 6 trillion days equates to approximately 16.427 billion years. This is within the estimated range for the age of the universe.

6,000,000,000,000 days/365.25 = 16.427104723 billion years
THE QUR'AN WRITES ABOUT COMBUSTION WITHOUT FIRE, ELECTRICTY
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The metaphor of His Light is that of a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp inside a glass, the glass like a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east nor of the west, its oil all but giving off light even if no fire touches it. Light upon Light. Allah guides to His Light whoever He wills and Allah makes metaphors for mankind and Allah has knowledge of all things. (Qur'an, 24:35)
QUR'AN WRITES ABOUT THE UNIQUENESS OF FINGER PRINTS AS IDENTITY
Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur'an, 75:4)
QUR'AN WRITES ABOUT THE SUN'S TRAJECTORY
It is He Who created night and day and the sun and moon, each one swimming in a sphere. (Qur'an, 21:33)

And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Qur'an, 36:38)
Diddo :idea:

Voltage, The facts were presented to him its up to him now, it can't get any more basic than this, if this misguided brother doesn't understand this then its because he doesn't want to. :up: :up:

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby kadarre » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:42 am

I love it when people that believe in Evolution start calling religious people ignorant. Do me a favor and fuckoff.

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby union » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:20 pm

Union, postkeygii iga jawaab.

Wamal xayaatu-dunyaa illa mataacul Quruur

And this world is nothing but a material deception
I'd rather believe that Allah SWT is testing people's imaan, rather than following what some Kaafir says :up:
It doesn't matter what you believe. The evidence is clearly in favor of evolution. You either accept it or you join the ranks of the ignorant, mostly filled by evangelical American Christians.

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby abdisamad3 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:27 pm

Union, postkeygii iga jawaab.

Wamal xayaatu-dunyaa illa mataacul Quruur

And this world is nothing but a material deception
I'd rather believe that Allah SWT is testing people's imaan, rather than following what some Kaafir says :up:
It doesn't matter what you believe. The evidence is clearly in favor of evolution. You either accept it or you join the ranks of the ignorant, mostly filled by evangelical American Christians.
you have no evidence evolution is bullshit..they go all over the world looking for bones to back up their claims but they havent found anything releable yet..sometimes they find a monkey skeleton and claim it to be a pre-historic ape like human on their evolving to human stage..you think we gonna fall for that kind of bullshit.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby union » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:35 pm

you have no evidence evolution is bullshit..they go all over the world looking for bones to back up their claims but they havent found anything releable yet..sometimes they find a monkey skeleton and claim it to be a pre-historic ape like human on their evolving to human stage..you think we gonna fall for that kind of bullshit.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And let us not forget:

Pseudogenes
Atavisms
Homology
ERV's
Embryology
Vestigial organs, behaviors, etc..
Phylogenetic Trees
Cytochrome C
Human Chromosome 2 - Fusion
Geographical Distribution of Species

But since you probably have not heard these terms before, you're going to inevitability respond with more stupidity. Do us both a favor and don't please, because clearly your IQ isn't above 100.

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby abdisamad3 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:43 pm

union where are all the proves we came from apes..where are all the missing link's and dead skeletons of all those dead human looking ape's..how can you prove all this
if you show me a clear prove of humans evolving from monkeys then I will believe it if you cant then I know evolution is bullshit..

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Re: Union soo gal

Postby abdisamad3 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:55 pm

btw union how did the birds evolve to the way they are today..did they evolve to birds then start laying eggs or did they first evolve to eggs and then hatch to birds.
and how can you prove this do you have any clear evidence to back this up with or is it the usual bullshit theory with no real proves to back you up.now lets if you gonna avoid me this time as usual when ever I ask you some hard questions you cant answer. :)


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