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Somalis announce their christianity!!!

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ciyaal_warta
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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby ciyaal_warta » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:03 pm

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

that is when we have a khilafah islaamiyah...no one can pass that judgement except amiirul-mu'minin which we dont have it now..so we gona leave it to allah as long as that person doesnt preach his/her falsehood

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Alchemist » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:07 pm

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

that is when we have a khilafah islaamiyah...no one can pass that judgement except amiirul-mu'minin which we dont have it now..so we gona leave it to allah as long as that person doesnt preach his/her falsehood
No has said let us go kill that person bro.. the whole argument here is there are people who are saying that hadith is false created by wahabis and shabab radicals.. Now lets admit first that the hadith is saheeh.. As for carrying out the punishment of course is up to a islamic government..

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby muslim-man » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:12 pm

[quote="ciyaal_warta"][quote="AhmedBoqor"]Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and [b][u]the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.[/u][/b]"Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17[/quote]


that is when we have a khilafah islaamiyah...no one can pass that judgement except amiirul-mu'minin which we dont have it now..so we gona leave it to allah as long as that person doesnt preach his/her falsehood[/quote]

Thats besides the point. the point is, what is islam's ruling on those who renounce it?

this questions keeps coming back.

From what i understand, he/she should be killed. ilaa mrkan yaraa sidaas ayaan u aqaaney. meeshan waa meel walaan dad waxaa isugu yimaado dad aimkooga yahey in ey dadka shaki kubeeran. marka hore waad la murmeysaa oo runta ayad ushegeeysaa dabadeedna shaki ayuu taada kaa galin marka dambana waxaa lagu arkayaa ninkaagi toosnaa oo leh, naaguhu imaam wey noqon karaan acuuddubillah :arrow:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Alchemist » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:25 pm

Quran verses.

Lo! those who disbelieve after their (profession of) belief, and afterward grow violent in disbelief: their repentance will not be accepted. And such are those who are astray. Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.

Qur'an 3:90-91


They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Qur'an 4:89


O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.

Qur'an 5:54


But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know. And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

Qur'an 9:11-12


Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin.

Qur'an 9:66


Hadiths




[edit] Hadith

[edit] Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Sahih Bukhari 4:52:260


Narrated Abu Burda: That the Prophet sent his (i.e. Abu Burda's) grandfather, Abu Musa and Mu'adh to Yemen and said to both of them "Facilitate things for the people (Be kind and lenient) and do not make things difficult (for people), and give them good tidings, and do not repulse them and both of you should obey each other." Abu Musa said, "O Allah's Prophet! In our land there is an alcoholic drink (prepared) from barley called Al-Mizr, and another (prepared) from honey, called Al-Bit"' The Prophet said, "All intoxicants are prohibited." Then both of them proceeded and Mu'adh asked Abu Musa, "How do you recite the Quran?" Abu Musa replied, "I recite it while I am standing, sitting or riding my riding animals, at intervals and piecemeal." Muadh said, "But I sleep and then get up. I sleep and hope for Allah's Reward for my sleep as I seek His Reward for my night prayer." Then he (i.e. Muadh) pitched a tent and they started visiting each other. Once Muadh paid a visit to Abu Musa and saw a chained man. Muadh asked, "What is this?" Abu Musa said, "(He was) a Jew who embraced Islam and has now turned apostate." Muadh said, "I will surely chop off his neck!"

Sahih Bukhari 5:59:632


Narrated 'Abdullah:


Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Sahih Bukhari 9:83:17

Narrated 'Ikrima:


Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Sahih Bukhari 9:84:57


Narrated Abu Burda:


Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Musa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Musa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Sahih Bukhari 9:84:58


Narrated 'Ali:

Sahih Muslim

'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah), but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.

Sahih Muslim 16:4152


'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up and said: By Him besides Whom there is no god but He, the blood of a Muslim who bears the testimony that there is no god but Allah, and I am His Messenger, may be lawfully shed only in case of three persons: the one who abandons Islam, and deserts the community [Ahmad, one of the narrators, is doubtful whether the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) used the word li'l-jama'ah or al-jama'ah), and the married adulterer, and life for life.

Sahih Muslim 16:4154


Sahih Muslim

'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is not permissible to take the life of a Muslim who bears testimony (to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and I am the Messenger of Allah), but in one of the three cases: the married adulterer, a life for life, and the deserter of his Din (Islam), abandoning the community.


Sayings of the madhabs


Scholars

[edit] Fiqh

40.18b. The exceptions to that rule
The life of a Muslim is not lawful unless he apostasies after belief, commits illicit sex after he is muhsan, kills someone when it is not a case of retaliation, or engages in corruption in the earth or renounces the deen.

[ The exception to this inviolability is for a legal right, which refers to the three matters which he mentioned. In property, anyone who destroys something must pay for it.
The cases when taking life is permitted are indicated here. In the case of apostasy, he is asked to repent for three days. "Corruption in the earth" is banditry and highway robbery. Renouncing the deen is to embrace the dogma of the people of the sects about whom the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "They will pass through the deen like an arrow passes through game." In the Misbah, it goes through one side and comes out the other. ]

The Risala of 'Abdullah ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani
A Treatise on Maliki Fiqh (Including commentary from ath-Thamr ad-Dani by al-Azhari)(310/922 - 386/996)


08.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane, voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.”

Reliance of the Traveller: A Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law
Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri, Edited and Translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller


The Shafi´ites, Hanbalites and Malikites say: The verdict for the female apostate is the same as for the male. She must be called on to return to Islam for three days, prior to her death, for an evil-doer may have confused her understanding; thus the possibility exists for her being released from her confusion. Offering the apostate a time limit for repentance has been approved.
According to a tradition related by Daruqutni, quoting from Djabir b. Abdillah, the Prophet offered Islam to a woman named Ummu Rumman who had previously apostatised. Furthermore, the Prophet said, "It is good if she repents. If she does not, she is to be killed, since by apostasy she should be treated like a woman who has fought against Muslims, being taken captive in a holy war (jihad); thus it is lawful to kill her with the sword. Moreover, her guilt is far more abominable than women who are taken captive in a holy war, since she has become a Muslim."
The Prophet -- the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him -- said, "He who changes his religion must be killed"; this holds true both for men and women. The apostasy of a man calls for putting him to death. It is unanimously agreed upon that apostasy is a horrible crime deserving a horrible punishment. The apostasy of a woman is no less horrible. Therefore, it too deserves a corresponding punishment: death.


Fatwa of even moderate Azhar


Speaking of the authority of the punishment and its being genuine and based on the authentic sources of Islam, Sheikh `Attiyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, states:
"It is not right to deny the punishment of apostasy claiming that it has not been reported in the Qur'an, because it has been recorded in the mutawatir (Hadith which has been reported by at least four of the Companions in different times and places in a way that make a person sure that such Hadith is not fabricated) and the non-mutawatir Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him). Hudud (Islamic punishment specified for certain crimes) may, of course, be based on the non-mutawatir Sunnah."

Detailing the issue and showing some of the evidence for the punishment of apostasy, the prominent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

"All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death.

Many authentic Hadiths have been reported in this regard. Ibn `Abbas reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Whoever changes his religion, you kill him." (Reported by all the group except Muslim, and at-Tabarani also reported it with a sound chain of narrators. Also recorded in Majma` Az-Zawa'id by Al-Haythamiy.)

There is also the Hadith of Ibn Mas`ud that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "The blood of a Muslim individual who bears witness that there is no god but Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, is not to be shed except in three cases: in retaliation (in murder crimes), married adulterers (and adulteresses), and the one who abandons his religion and forsakes the Muslim community." (Reported by the Group)
The actual example of one of the greatest Companions, `Ali ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) gives credit to this also. He himself carried out the punishment on some people who had deified him. He gave them three days respite to repent and go back to their senses. When they proved adamant, he put them to fire.”

Source of the Punishment for Apostasy

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Alchemist » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:29 pm

Now the answer is simple on one side you have Allahs messenger(pbuh), his companions, the scholars of hadith and fiqh through out history and on the other side you have some University teacher who teaches islam in some American city somewhere, the likes of DR Yalaxoow who i bet will enter any moment with wahabis this and that and every other atheist sharia hating secular on this site... To each his own.. :up:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby ToughGong » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:32 pm

Now the answer is simple on one side you have Allahs messenger(pbuh), his companions, the scholars of hadith and fiqh through out history and on the other side you have some University teacher who teaches islam in some American city somewhere, the likes of DR Yalaxoow who i bet will enter any moment with wahabis this and that and every other atheist sharia hating secular on this site... To each his own.. :up:
:up:

:lol: :lol: :lol: @
DR Yalaxoow who i bet will enter any moment with wahabis this and that

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby muslim-man » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Now the answer is simple on one side you have Allahs messenger(pbuh), his companions, the scholars of hadith and fiqh through out history and on the other side you have some University teacher who teaches islam in some American city somewhere, the likes of DR Yalaxoow who i bet will enter any moment with wahabis this and that and every other atheist sharia hating secular on this site... To each his own.. :up:
:up:

:lol: :lol: :lol: @
DR Yalaxoow who i bet will enter any moment with wahabis this and that
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm suprised yalaaxow hasn't turned up after six pages :lol:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby NoAngst » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:45 pm

Ciyaal warta, your crazy man.

It is because of diversity and lack of common unity that is preventing peace from your ancestral land. Somalia will forever have one religion and one people. Saaxib just because you are in malaysia does not mean same thing can happen in Somalia.

dude we neeeeed diversity fock all the clans and the hate mongering wadaads ..if a somali-christian person want to live in soomaaliya he or she should have the freedom to live in soomaaliya :up:
A Somali christian does not work for Somalia or Somalis, he works for the white priest and he will lie to you because his cadaan priest told him so. Saxiib dont have a weak mind.
That's like saying a Somali Muslim works for Arabs since Arabs brought Islam to Somalia. Somalis were not always Muslims.

Anyways, lakum diinakum waliya diin. I don't care about what Somalis believe as long as they're law-abiding and patriotic.

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby globetrotter2 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:55 pm

This is not good. Some of you are saying that christians - or people of other faiths should be killed? Just be warned that you could be booked for inciting hatred. It is a crime punishable in many of the countries you call home.

Some of you seem to have no knowledge of what you are talking about. There have been historically a somali christian community in Somalia, Djibouti and Kenya ( I don't know about Ethiopia). Michael Mariammu, one of the key persons in somalia's independence was a christian; and he was loved and accepted by somalis. In Djibouti, several leading persons were christians.

I would rather have a christian somali than a fake muslim somali who worships qabil. You are good calling for the heads of other people while condoning the actions of people who use islam to murder, rape and abuse. I would rather have a christian somali than Inda-cade, and the other warlords.

My point is this; it is a crime or Haram to call on the murder of human beings.

If you are good muslims, why are you on this forums day in and day out calling for the murders of others, condoning the actions of warlords and telling us about how superior you clan is?

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Knight of Wisdom » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:35 am

Knight of Wisdom walahi from me is nothing more than a sincere advice.. you dont have to take my word for it am must a guy on the internet.. Go to your local masjid and find someone knowledgeable in this deen and ask him about the ruling on the one who leaves islam...
First, may Allah forgive me if I made any mistakes or committed any sins on my part and may Allah forgive us all and guide us to the right path. Amiin.

Secondly, I will take your advice and check with reliable resources, such as my local Masjid Ulimah and others as well. I'll compare and contrast. :up:

Thirdly, myself and those that agreed with me, we are not in any way, shape or form trying to denounce Islam nor criticize Islam. What we are trying to do is comprehend what you and those that agree with you uphold to, regarding Apostasy. For you to say that, one cannot be forced to enter Islam, but if anyone decides to leave Islam, they shall be killed is an oxymoron. That's how I perceive it.

To kill one who leaves Islam, would give out the impression that so and so (the victim) was a 'hostage' in Islam and believed Allah against his will. :|

But, thank you really. I like the way you approach me with your advice and how what you wrote gave off an humble atmosphere. :up:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby union » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:46 am

Religious pluralism. :up:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Alchemist » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:50 am

Knight of Wisdom walahi from me is nothing more than a sincere advice.. you dont have to take my word for it am must a guy on the internet.. Go to your local masjid and find someone knowledgeable in this deen and ask him about the ruling on the one who leaves islam...
First, may Allah forgive me if I made any mistakes or committed any sins on my part and may Allah forgive us all and guide us to the right path. Amiin.

Secondly, I will take your advice and check with reliable resources, such as my local Masjid Ulimah and others as well. I'll compare and contrast. :up:

Thirdly, myself and those that agreed with me, we are not in any way, shape or form trying to denounce Islam nor criticize Islam. What we are trying to do is comprehend what you and those that agree with you uphold to, regarding Apostasy. For you to say that, one cannot be forced to enter Islam, but if anyone decides to leave Islam, they shall be killed is an oxymoron. That's how I perceive it.

To kill one who leaves Islam, would give out the impression that so and so (the victim) was a 'hostage' in Islam and believed Allah against his will. :|

But, thank you really. I like the way you approach me with your advice and how what you wrote gave off an humble atmosphere. :up:
Your welcome bro and is a good thing that you will be researching this more on your own.. Most people here just come to argue so their mindset is fixed on something before they even start a debate..

Also you and ciyal warte might be sincere but many of the others are not.. We all know their stance when it comes to the rules of Allah.. Union, DR Yaxaloow etc those are people you wouldnt want to be on your side when it comes to your religion.. If i see Union agreeing with me about deen issue than i know there is something wrong. :)

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby union » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:52 am

What is this self proclaimed wahabi cockroach talking about. Don't take any advice from him KOW. :lol:

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Alchemist » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:54 am

What is this self proclaimed wahabi cockroach talking about. Don't take any advice from him KOW. :lol:
lool walahi that made me laugh...

May Allah guide you and me to the straight path, amiin.

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Re: Somalis announce their christianity!!!

Postby Knight of Wisdom » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:56 am

Don't take any advice from him KOW. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Union, why is that?


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