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Somaliland - Somalia Talks

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udun
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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby udun » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:53 pm

Don't we have more important things to talk about?
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Salah Al-Din » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:56 pm

Don't we have more important things to talk about?
:lol: :lol:
You do realize they're important enough to have the international community to mediate these talks :mrgreen:

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby udun » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:17 pm

There are so many fake stories repeated in the web that some wants us to believe as if they are facts. Truth is there has never been a country called Somaliland in the 1960. It used to be called British Somaliland Protectorate, and when the British empire left, there was no constitution created for that protectorate. There was no even a name defined for the Somali section after the British departed. As a matter fact, there was no country called Somaliland that was accepted into the AU nor UN. The whole reason why the union was enacted was, because there was a fear that the Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie would attack and conquer it. The Somalis in the North did not want to end up like the reserve region, Ogaden, that was handed over to Ethiopia by the British government. The Sudanese Ambassador in Addis Abeba has told Somali delegates who were in Adis Abeba at the time that you will come under attack had you not prepare yourself for it.

Due to this fear of Ethiopian attack and the lack of armament, the Somalis in the North were hurrying up to join their brethren in the South. There was no even discussions of power-sharing, or any joint relationships that two parties sign when they are getting into agreements. The idea that some are repeating here that there were two Somali countries that got into agreements in the 1960s is an absolute lie. The declaration of the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960 was the starting point. Any prior borders defined by the British government is pointless since the independent Somali Republic have clear borders that is recognized by all international organizations, and the declaration its independence had no strings attached to it.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby DR-YALAXOOW » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:22 pm

pls pls united nations recognice somaalilaaaand- aaaaaac aaaah pls plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz why why whyy whyy we need recognition :oops:
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aaaah whyy whyyy 21 years its too loong 8-) 8-)

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Salah Al-Din » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:37 pm

There are so many fake stories repeated in the web that some wants us to believe as if they are facts. Truth is there has never been a country called Somaliland in the 1960. It used to be called British Somaliland Protectorate, and when the British empire left, there was no constitution created for that protectorate. There was no even a name defined for the Somali section after the British departed. As a matter fact, there was no country called Somaliland that was accepted into the AU nor UN. The whole reason why the union was enacted was, because there was a fear that the Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie would attack and conquer it. The Somalis in the North did not want to end up like the reserve region, Ogaden, that was handed over to Ethiopia by the British government. The Sudanese Ambassador in Addis Abeba has told Somali delegates who were in Adis Abeba at the time that you will come under attack had you not prepare yourself for it.

Due to this fear of Ethiopian attack and the lack of armament, the Somalis in the North were hurrying up to join their brethren in the South. There was no even discussions of power-sharing, or any joint relationships that two parties sign when they are getting into agreements. The idea that some are repeating here that there were two Somali countries that got into agreements in the 1960s is an absolute lie. The declaration of the Somali Republic on July 1, 1960 was the starting point. Any prior borders defined by the British government is pointless since the independent Somali Republic have clear borders that is recognized by all international organizations, and the declaration its independence had no strings attached to it.

This is the Presidential Decree trying to retroactively make the union between Somaliland and Somalia referencing Somaliland's constitution
Image

This is the same document clearly stating "THE INDENDENT GOVERNMENTS OF SOMALILAND AND SOMALIA"
Image

Read the 3 documents I mentioned: the Act of Union by Somaliland, the Atto di Unione by Somalia and the Presidential Decree.
Resorting to here say when the documents are available on Google is being intellectually lazy.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby udun » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:49 pm

^Bring the URL, and not some distorted documents written by some secessionist supporters! We will sure examine

Fyi, Article 4 of the Somali constitution state, "the territorial integrity of Somali Republic is sacred." :lol:

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Salah Al-Din » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:05 pm

^Bring the URL, and not some distorted documents written by some secessionist supporters! We will sure examine

Fyi, Article 4 of the Somali constitution state, "the territorial integrity of Somali Republic is sacred." :lol:
I realize that, the only problem is this article was never ratified. :mrgreen: How sweet is that? The fact that no single act of union was ratified is the reason the officers who did the coup de tat in 1961 were found, wait for it: NOT GUILTY OF TREASON. The reason, they never pledged allegiance to the Somali Republic. :D :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

loooooooool@ some documents written by me. Go do some googling or if all else fails ask Faroole to lend you his :D

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby blackstars25 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:23 pm


These talks are very important. In fact finding the solution to the Somaliland & Somalia impasse will be the most significant event in the horn of africa this decade.
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hehe...your kidding right?

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby The`Republic » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:28 pm

Salah-Adin is probably the most delusional guy I have seen on this forum.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Mondey » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:31 pm

http://boramanews.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=53

:up:

Somalia: a sovereign country.
Somaliland: 5 or less districts of the same country.

The president/PM or their cabinet should not be involved in the talks i say send some officials from Puntland or Galmudug for this task. also no talks can start before defining SL self-claimed borders first.

Somaliland used to be like "no talks until you recognize our legitimacy" today its different bcoz they know that attitude will take them no where.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby blackstars25 » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:32 pm

i'll say this, the only reason isaaq clan could even entertain the idea of secession is because there was no body to keep it in check, somali state has collapsed. but within a few years when the somali government revitalises and gets its finances in order, all hell will break loose. south somalia will be equipped with state of the art equipment and well experienced soldiers not to mention the full support of the international community, and with the help of puntland will first conquer the contested regions (possibly through local militias). this will shatter what ever legitimacy somaliland has left. i've always seen this scenario as inevitable.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Cirwaaq » Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:24 am

i'll say this, the only reason isaaq clan could even entertain the idea of secession is because there was no body to keep it in check, somali state has collapsed. but within a few years when the somali government revitalises and gets its finances in order, all hell will break loose. south somalia will be equipped with state of the art equipment and well experienced soldiers not to mention the full support of the international community, and with the help of puntland will first conquer the contested regions (possibly through local militias). this will shatter what ever legitimacy somaliland has left. i've always seen this scenario as inevitable.
I guess you will send your brother and son to go do the fighting right?

Indian proverb
in connection with the Somalis: ‘He who finds himself in the mouth of the lion will appeal for help even to the tiger.’
The conferences will be held peacefully over the years to come and will take much time and effort away from the needed progress and development that otherwise would have gone to improving the lives of the average somalis back home... Outcome is already desided.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Salah Al-Din » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:01 am


There are only two inevitable outcomes with a 3rd i would class as improbable.

1. Somalia grants Somaliland de jure recognitions
2. Somalia refuses to even discuss recognition and talks stall leading to a default supporting Somaliland's case.

3. One of the States declares war as a result of the Stalemate in the talks(improbable) but ultimately the international community would then have to favour one of the options.

Somalia Vs Somaliland

I believe Somalia's track record places it in a weaker position to bargain as Somaliland could Reject Union-request, cause the meeting to stall and walk away and continue doing as it has done for the past 21 years. Somalia's existance does not effect Somaliland at all however, Somaliland's existance totally undermines Somalia's government simply because they will continue to claim to represent somaliland as anything else is going to be percieved as Recognition.

Some people can see the checkmate steps ahead others wish to modify the rules governing the motion of the players on the board.

- Recognition can lead to possible future Union of all Somali regions.
- Rejection of Somaliland will assure there is never a Union till the end of times.
Cirwaaq how important is the international communities involvment so that there is progress in these talks?

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby Salah Al-Din » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 am

The president/PM or their cabinet should not be involved in the talks i say send some officials from Puntland or Galmudug for this task. also no talks can start before defining SL self-claimed borders first.
The talks are scheduled to take place on June 21st. The TFG has already named ministers. :D The invovlment of Puntland has been nixed. For all intent and purposes, Somaliland and Somalia are meeting as Somalia and Somaliland discussing their future relations. The writing is on the wall. :D
Last edited by Salah Al-Din on Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Somaliland - Somalia Talks

Postby blackstars25 » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 am

"I believe Somalia's track record places it in a weaker position to bargain as Somaliland could Reject Union-request, cause the meeting to stall and "

There's no need to request a union. In the eyes of most Somali's and the international community north/west somalia is part and parcel of the Somali Republic. It's only in your secessionist crazed mind that a disunion exists.


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