The 4.5 State

[SultanOrder]

Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government."

Political theorists have laid the ground work for the formation of modern states. Rousseau in his Social contract lays out the basis of Governance as a social contract by it's Sovereign people. These sovereign people give up their natural rights to maintain social order, property, life. The basis of a Democratic state is the representation of it's citizens.

What is formally known as Somalia ceased to exist after 91 with the collapse of the revolutionary government, plummeting the sovereign people into a state of nature. With the collapse of the state, all former contracts should then cease to exist. You do not hold a dead person to a contract they signed while alive, nor do you say that person is still alive. In place of the former state, a new one must be then formed, with new consent of the sovereign people. In it's place, new social contracts have been formed, and new states exist. Some states still believe themselves to be a part of a non-existent state, ASWJ, Puntland, Galmudug, Ximan iyo Xeeb, etc. And others saw the reality, and thus formed new states such as the Al Shabab state, and the Somaliland state.

Let's look at the modern day TFG. The will of the people is reduced into the 4.5 system, it is enforced by AMISOM the military wing of the UN. It's constitution or social contract is written and created by them. It is compromised by it's citizens, the 4.5 people. The representation of the 4.5 people, are going to elect representatives in a politic body, and then elect their leaders. It is the 4.5 state, a direct representative one at that. Some people fear that what was formerly known as Somalia will fall into a UN trusteeship. I find it hillarious, because I believe that since the TNG it has been in a UN trusteeship.

The recent convening of the elders to pass the new constitution, was just a way to legitimize this 4.5 state. Did the elders really think they had a say in the Constitution?
Now I go to my people in Somaliland. Khalid, you are owed an apology. The 4.5 state has usurped the legitimate authority of the sovereign people of Somaliland the moment it decided to usurp their will by including their respective clans in this new state. And the moment that the 4.5 state laid claim in their constitution to territories that are in, no the whole of the Somaliland State, is the moment that they declared war on the Somaliland state. Do not confuse this as an active military state of war, but a State of war between two states. What I find sad is that the Somaliland electives still believe that they can get recognition by the same party that has declared war on their sovereignty, the UN by their created state the 4.5 state.

In the eyes of the UN, any dissension to their plans for the 4.5 state is an enemy. This includes leaders of the 4.5 state, such as Farmaajo, and other states Somaliland, and Al Shabab. All these represent an undermining to their will and plans. And they will wage war on them either openly (alshabab) or a subversive one (Somaliland).

If one is to consider themselves a Somali nationalist, in the absence of a state encompassing the whole of the Somali people, then one must support the best manifestation of the will of the Somali people to form their own State. In my eyes, only one such state has managed to manifest the will of the people to govern themselves democratically. And the moment that Somaliland had elected their first truly democratic representatives, they should have garnered the support of all Somali nationalists. And anyone who is a true nationalist must grapple with reality of the Somali people and accept the right to determination of the Somaliland people. But at the same time, I see continually undermining of the Somaliland State both within it's borders and outside it's borders.

[SahanGalbeed]

P.O you're usually an honest bloke , something fishy here al-yoom

[SultanOrder]

Sahan, I have to either operate on a tribal mind frame, or transcend it. It's not an easy thing to always do. But I try to operate on reason... sometimes

[SahanGalbeed]

Northing is easy but we'll work through it

[Salah Al-Din]

Perfect_Order,

You're correct that every government that claimed to rule Somalia has by and large also claimed to represent Somaliland. You are also correct to say these actions are nothing short of continuation of hostilities (i.e a cold war). Nevertheless, we in Somaliland will not be a sacrificial lamb. LOL We understand the stakes and are prepared to deal with any eventuality. If when the talks resume post TFG between Somalia & Somaliland and we can come to an amicable solution of becoming two brotherly/sisterly neighbouring states. Alhamdulilah. If not and Somalia continues its aggression, we welcome that too. Come what may, the Sovereignty of Somaliland is non negotiable.

[skywalker25]

To be honest we dont pay no attention to what happens across the border in Somalia. We have witnessed all kinds of leaders who have all had one thing in common, opposition to Somaliland. Nothing has changed. If we decided to focus on what leaders in Somalia think of us, it would mean, we have taken our eye's of the ball and not in control of our destiny. This is the difference between your people PO and ours. We control our destiny and no UN or any other outside factor will change this. We do not share the same destiny, the same leaders, or the same ambitions.
We wish you the best.

[SultanOrder]

Salah al din, in my opinion you do not still realize the full extent of the situation if you think it is a cold war. It is a state of war, just short of armed conflict. It is the time before the two armies have reached each other.

Skywalker, my friend you are delusional. There is no such thing as Somalia, because Somalia was from Ras Kambooni to Saylac, and we both know there is no such state that has authority over that. The 4.5 state is as much my state as it is yours, because it claims to represent both our peoples respectively and the territory that we live in. But what you failing to see my friend is that it is the UN who is against you more than "my people", it is they who lay claim to your sovereignty as much as mine, and it is they who deny you not me. Move away from the tribal mentality, if you truly are a state that transcends it.

[The`Republic]

Skywalker, my friend you are delusional. There is no such thing as Somalia, because Somalia was from Ras Kambooni to Saylac, and we both know there is no such state that has authority over that. The 4.5 state is as much my state as it is yours, because it claims to represent both our peoples respectively and the territory that we live in. But what you failing to see my friend is that it is the UN who is against you more than "my people", it is they who lay claim to your sovereignty as much as mine, and it is they who deny you not me. Move away from the tribal mentality, if you truly are a state that transcends it.

[Salah Al-Din]

Salah al din, in my opinion you do not still realize the full extent of the situation if you think it is a cold war. It is a state of war, just short of armed conflict. It is the time before the two armies have reached each other.

We've seen this before too. As much as I do not wish for a war as it is not preferred to have Muslims fight each other. Nevertheless, Somaliland is prepared for any eventuality.

Realistically though, Somalia is in no shape and would have no stomach for any armed conflict for the foreseeable future. It is more plausible it will continue to claim Somaliland but little else.

[skywalker25]

Perfect Order, the UN may or may not be our enemy for multiple reason but what you have put forward is, water of a ducks back. Its not the UN thats put this nonsense together put rather your illiterate leaders who wish to drag Somaliland as part of their sphere of influence. These folks are dillusional and instead of governing should be in a zoo. They are your problems not the UN. Look at Somaliland nobody forced us to sit down and agree with eachother. Somalia's future is not our problem sxb, its yours. We march to a different beat, dont let this charade fool you. Any member of this or any other TFG government will meet the same fate, arrest if they land in Hargeisa, regardless of tribe. Thats power sxb, and no UN will change that. The day they try, we can then have this discussion. Till then we will be doing as we have been doing for the last 25 years, looking back, shaking our head and carry on as before. On our long walk for recognition..

As for those in Mogdisho from my tribe being my leaders, they you and i, know thats not the case. I dont recognize them as my leaders, but you recognize those who hail from your tribe in Xamer as your leader. My leader is well known to the UN and they accept him...

[SultanOrder]

Salah Al Din, you still do not understand what I am trying to stay. The 4.5 state is defended by Amisom a UN supported/funded African mercenary force. Your fear should be directed at them and not "Somalia" . I keep telling you, UN is your enemy, not the Somali people, we are just pawns in this game.

[Salah Al-Din]

Salah Al Din, you still do not understand what I am trying to stay. The 4.5 state is defended by Amisom a UN supported/funded African mercenary force. Your fear should be directed at them and not "Somalia" . I keep telling you, UN is your enemy, not the Somali people, we are just pawns in this game.

Now you've gone off the deep end. So AMISOM will march into Somaliland in order to subjugate Somaliland for the pleasure of Somalia? LOL I think the fasting hast gotten to you.

If AMISOM can pacify Somalia, and then help train Somalia's security forces is what they're focusing on. They do not have a mandate to engage in a war with Somaliland.

Go back to the drawing board Wile E. Coyote.

[SultanOrder]

Perfect Order, the UN may or may not be our enemy for multiple reason but what you have put forward is, water of a ducks back. Its not the UN thats put this nonsense together put rather your illiterate leaders who wish to drag Somaliland as part of their sphere of influence. These folks are dillusional and instead of governing should be in a zoo. They are your problems not the UN. Look at Somaliland nobody forced us to sit down and agree with eachother. Somalia's future is not our problem sxb, its yours. We march to a different beat, dont let this charade fool you. Any member of this or any other TFG government will meet the same fate, arrest, regardless of tribe. Thats power sxb, and no UN will change that. The day they try, we can then have this discussion. Till then we will be doing as we have been doing for the last 25 years, looking back, shaking our head and carry on as before. On our long walk for recognition..

As for those in Mogdisho from my tribe being my leaders, they you and i, know thats not the case. I dont recognize them as my leaders, but you recognize those who hail from your tribe in Xamer as your leader. My leader is well known to the UN and they accept him...

Skywalker enough with the bravado. The Somaliland government has been put in between a rock and hard place. They are in the midst of trying to balance their sovereignty and the will of the UN who gives them nominal financial support and lip service. The UN's intentions became clear when they forced Somaliland to participate in the Somalia initiative in London earlier this year. Hiliary clinton made clear the United States policy towards Somaliland when she called for unity, and they are the biggest force in the UN. If you believe that any "Somali leaders" put together this constitution, especially illiterate ones, than your too far gone to reason with. Especially any "Somali leaders" who can not claim to even 30% of the country, with no functioning government behind them.

But we can agree that it will be a long walk for recognition, if ever it happens. Do you think that Billions of dollars would go into this 4.5 State if they didn't have some serious interests, or the UN had total control on the evolution of this process?

[FAH1223]

Salah

It's not Somalia, it's the UN that controls the game and the path to ictiraf

[skywalker25]

Everything I said has gone straight over your head. You are not interested in a discussion but rather imposing your simplestic logic on us.

Sxb, we will see. Somaliland will march on, if you become a UN trusteeship all the best. But know this, YOUR ON YOUR OWN...