Sahal are you motivated by anything OTHER than petty tribal symbolism?

[Gubbet]

Wow dude, this is actually surprising to me oddly enough. We say Somalis are a nation of clans so much, we actually become desensitized to how totally baffling and even meaningless and petty this can be --- until an extreme manifestation of this makes a joke of it all.

Disclaimer:This is not about who or what anyone supports. I am also just wrapping up open history topics as I said. However...

The last couple of days, I actually REALLY started to see something; I mean SEE it.

This guy Sahal is completely a robot with one line of code;

"He is Tribal X; He is tribal X, He is tribal X..."

My God; not a single intellectual, ideological, rational motivation about anything. "He is Tribal X; He is tribal X, He is tribal X..." Fine, ok he is Tribal X----does that mean Tribal Y will be different for you?

I mean honestly if it has never happened before and this was being tried NOW; I would consider that actually a legitimate hypothesis to test.

BUT... not only do we have very recent comparisons, but they are the preceding 2 (TWO) cases, and get this (AS IF IT COULDN'T BE MORE IRONIC); they are the two main opposition members.

Unsurprisingly, in BOTH cases, at the end of their terms similarly this guy was crooning "HE IS TRIBAL Y; HE IS TRIBAL Y."

IN. BOTH. CASES.

We are bankrupt. Bankrupt I tell you. BANKRUPT. Intellectually, morally, spiritually, and even psycho-emotionally. Again, this is not about supporting Individual X. The last couple days, quite literally---my eyes were like this wide-eyed.

THIS is what I was responding to? Really?? This is devoid of any observable, measurable, or identifiable sense of substance at all.

This is nothing---it's just a robot on autopilot until the lazy programmer puts in another single line of code.

We are bankrupt and maybe it's because we have given up or something and---that single line of code to us is like that single can of half empty cheap watery beer a poor hobo on the side of the road nurses to get through the cold, windy night on an empty street.

It is why we are a mess---and we have been a mess----for a long time;

Long before---- "He is Tribal X; He is tribal X, He is tribal X..."

At the least, talk even about the history, culture, and interesting features of your own clan. Share interesting stories; highlight structural and material developmental needs and achievements in your own regions.

That way---you could actually be of service to your clan instead of taking advantage of it for---no substantive reasons.

And people would actually learn something from you---whether it was intentioned or not.

I digress.

[sahal80]

Says the MX supremacist a guy who does not know except the falsification of history and who claims every clan hails from his clan. the saying the pot calling the kettle black applays to you.


i call for a tribally political society the reason why the army that was besieging your "powrful" former president left Xamar by single call from MM and the pm

i took the UAE as example also SL and PL, djibouti


Spare me from your hypocrisy and late wacdi and take the L

[Gubbet]

Meh.

[somaliforums]

If he's smart enough, let me see what he gets out of this few paragraphs.

Somali Political Cycle

Social structure is not to be thought of as static, but as a condition of equilibrium that only persists by being continually renewed, like the chemical-physiological homeostasis of a living organism.

Events occur which disturb the equilibrium in some way, and a social reaction follows which tends to restore it.

Sometimes a system may persist relatively unchanged for some length of time; after each disturbance the reaction restores it to very much what it was before.

But at other times disturbance of equilibrium may be such that it and the reaction which follows results in a modification of the system; a new equilibrium is reached which differs from the one previously existing.

With a serious disturbance the process of readjustment may take a long time.

[DaahirMursal]

Everybody is motivated by tribal symbolism, and that's including you, my friend.

Somalia's predicament would disappear (though not promptly) if that ceased to be the case.

[Gubbet]

If he's smart enough, let me see what he gets out of this few paragraphs.

Somali Political Cycle

Social structure is not to be thought of as static, but as a condition of equilibrium that only persists by being continually renewed, like the chemical-physiological homeostasis of a living organism.

Events occur which disturb the equilibrium in some way, and a social reaction follows which tends to restore it.

SomPartner system may persist relatively unchanged for some length of time; after each disturbance the reaction restores it to very much what it was before.

But at other times disturbance of equilibrium may be such that it and the reaction which follows results in a modification of the system; a new equilibrium is reached which differs from the one previously existing.

With a serious disturbance the process of readjustment may take a long time.

Interesting. So my initial read is "modification" of the system is something that invalidates the entire "understanding" of the status quo causing a need for a "new understanding" about just exactly what "who" means.

Essentially---a change in the "Control" variable.

In an analysis of Somali social structure

Dependent Variable = Alliances/Partnerships
Independent Variable = Interests/Partners
Control Variable: Clan Membership/Relationship/Contract

Modification of the system therefore is changing the CONTROL which is essentially changes in clan membership/relationships/contracts?

The relationship of Hawaadle to Hawiye then was one "modification of the system".

The concept of "Irir" was one such modification.

Etc etc etc

[Gubbet]

So for anyone that needs more explanation for what I deduced

1. Control Variable
   • Marehan is Darod and Habar Gidir is Hawiye
2. Independent Variable
   • Because of changed interests, Marehan and Habar Gidir exchanged being enemies to see each other as partners
3. Dependent Variable
   • What resulted was the end of SNF vs USC and beginning of Jubba Valley Alliance. (JVA)

Similarly, changed interests led to the end of JVA and the ex-partners joining Islamic Courts Union (Seeraar) and TFG (Barre Hiiraale).

This is the normal process of equilibrium .

For this equilibrium to be disturbed seriously in a "modification" of the system, it means the change has to come from the control (just who is the "clan" ) instead of the usual change in the independent variable (interests between known clans).

Basically for that process to have a serious or permanent/long term change in equilibrium... Marehan and Habar Gidir are no longer relating to each other based on interests, they now have a different "Xeer" or contract aka they are no longer the two different clans of "Marehan/Darod" and "Habar Gidir/Hawiye" as was "understood" in the "old system" that is now "modified systemically"

[sahal80]

I do not want to sin in this blessed month but whatever I say, this guy remains disconnected from reality and we cannot understand each other and most people here including his own fellow tribes men dont understand him go read what he said about Sadaq joon and hirshabelle and Galmudug becoming against extension and the US role in this in support of former president he said absolutely crazy stuff i stopped reading anything he says he is being influenced by the trump cult followers and the american conspiracy theorists and he is swimming in his delusional fantasies that have nothing to do with the lived reality and Somali politics. For example, he talks about an alliance between HG and MX while it was confined to the latter and ceyr. Wasn't it AbdiQasim who was not allowed to enter villa wardhiigley by Hussien Aideed? Abdiqasim was the man behind this Ceyr and Mx alliance. Wasn't Aideed allied with Morgan At that time, there was a conflict between two camps supported by Ethiopia and another supported by Egypt and PL was established because of the Cairo conference which gave all power to the Hawiye tribe where Ali Mahdi becomes the president and Hussein Aidid the prime minister. after that there was the successful embagatti conference in Kenya. At that time all the Abgaals such as Muse Sudi, Salad Ali Jeele and Mohamed Dheere and Hawadle led by Colonel Hassan Qalad were in the Ethiopian Camp. this guy doesnt know shit. forget about huessin Aideed Hawadle and Abgaal were allied with caato and Cabdi qaybdiid against Caydiid way before that in mid 90s. recently Murax was saying there r no hawadle militias in Wadajir and we talked about Hawadle bordering abgaal from one side and the other Sacad at siliga iyo wadada wich is Sacad. these Sacad are jufada caato and qaybdiid we welcomed them after the cakaaro war. we gave qaybdiid saldhiga galbeed wich is why all the families in t are sacad. Ceydiid was killed while he was attacking qaybdiid in this saldhig after threatening muuse suudi and hawadle to hand him over to him.

you see how clueless murax and this guy r? now he is trying to do comparison between now and mid 2000s wich is absolutely irrelevant. you had strong HG opposition 3.5 years and now maybe only most of Sacad so Rooble is trying to "include all HG in his govt" this means mucaaradka too! very close to what qoorqoor did in Galmudug.

yeey shiirkole neighbourhood u xuran tahay till now is not Saleebaan? yeey km4 and siigaale u xirneed? was not Ceyr and saleebaan? do they support former president or even Rooble?

you will see the likes of kamal guutaale and fiqi in Rooble cabinet waana u dhameyn doonaan your former pres ayagaa howsha doorashada dowr weyn ku yeelan doona. hadeey All HG soo galaan daaqadaad ka baxeysaan kkkk.

finally let me repeat for the last time. im not qabiilist, im not anti-darood or mx as i said many times what i believe is regional autonomy and decentralization of governance to the point of confederacy based on the current FMS who r also based on 4.5 why Daarood and hawiye have two states? this is called 2.5 the half is D&M not just within each state. PLand is Against Banaadir representation for this reason but they support it as autonomous region elects its mayor who is independent from the FGS


i said to some Somalilanders you guys r scared of this as this my pull the rug out from under you and this is the way somalia is heading after the next elections. in hirshabelle State i only have mainly two partners who r Abgaal and Gaaljecel so even if you talk about proper Hawiye waxma iigu jiraan marka Abgaal laga reebo we r the majority not them also Abgaal r allied with Hawadle and in Xamar we live in Abgaal dominantly neighbourhoods like wadajir, Yaaqshiid and shibis. all this empowers Abgaal interests in Xamar and the reason why we treat Udeejeen in Hiiraan differently is because of how Abgaal treated us in Xamar. we have in yaaqshiid waax called juungal they all joined Abgaal army . Abgaals tell Hawadle all the time help us in Xamar we will give you back Hirshabelle but Hawadle from hiiraan r reluctant about it or not into alliance with Abgaal before Hirshabelle gets fixed. only those in Xamar support them bc their fates r intermingled with them and hassan sheekh has being recruiting them.

he is against Federalism bc mx has no regional influence and r divided into pro OG-led JL who the majority and run Gedo vs anti-OG led JL and their role in the FGS will disappear foreever if the capital was moved to GLK for example let alone kablalah controlled regions. we know mj will be either the pm ir the president once this happens! in other wordd they were hawiyes preference bc bc of their mjphobia but now they r done with them forever!!


this mx fadhi ku dirir guy knows more than this guy

[Gubbet]

Dude---seriously, that was an over reaction.

Furthermore, nothing about your response seems to be "responding" to the actual answer I gave "Somaliforum."

This is the first time that I truly believe there is possibly a "language barrier" and perhaps you are not even.understanding me as a result of a structural issue like we need a translator between us.

Your response completely baffles me. The only way I can make sense of it is like saying to someone

"Hey let's go to the BEACH."

And they respond

"BITCH? YOU CALLED ME A BITCH???"

And this is me now;

Huh?

And seriously, I have ignored this before because I thought it was ridiculous, but you are too much with your little resentment towards so I am going to advice you this one time.

You need to chill out with your obsession of trying to invalidate me sense of "knowledge." God knows how many times I had to correct you about something or another or deadpanned at the screen scratching my head; and all I said at the least is you were misinformed which.happens to everybody. I never once even thought of trying to invalidate or put in to question your sense of "knowledge."

You are just completely "unpleasant" to deal with at this point.

No one logs on here to walk.om eggshells around you lest you pop a vein and completely overblow everything like you did above.
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[somaliforums]

Damn! I was anticipating a good post to read from Sahal. Now, I've to decipher what he posted.

For Sahal,

Adigo raali ah, qeybtaan noo fasir:

i said many times what i believe is regional autonomy and decentralization of governance to the point of confederacy based on the current FMS who r also based on 4.5 why Daarood and hawiye have two states? this is called 2.5 the half is D&M not just within each state. PLand is Against Banaadir representation for this reason but they support it as autonomous region elects its mayor who is independent from the FGS

Couple questions to use to put things in perspective:

1. Why do you believe in Regional autonomy & decentralisation? (Personal interest or Clan interest)
2. Why can Hawiye and Darod not have 2 states?
3. State the reason Puntland is against Banadir representation (in detail with facts)

As for Gubbet,

I do agree

"modification" of the system is something that invalidates the entire "understanding" of the status quo causing a need for a "new understanding" about just exactly what "who" means.

However, the modification of the system does not change the Control but rather it changes the Independent variable. For instance, If JVA's year of formation was correct, the number of alliances was more than 2 tribes and they were all powerful tribes… JVA could still have been active today.

Eid Mubarak

[barbarossa]

Makes one wonder the futility of two thus equally contentious Faaraxs giving each other an opportunity for discourse.