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There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

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Gubbet
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There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Gubbet » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:38 pm

There are two perspectives always starting and monopolizing discussion of this history---a Hawiye perspective revolving around "Karanle" and an Isaaq perspective revolving around "Habar Magaadle--- and both groups are always implicated in pushing this directly targeting "Marehan."

Actually---that seems to be both how they can even create discussion & even sustain it.

Interestingly btw the other side in the discussions pushing back on this historical revision are not even likely to be Marehan most of the time. They happen to be a diversity of Somalis particularly of a western disposition from Hararghe, Awdal, Djibouti, and Sitti & sometimes from Puntland-SSC who disagree with the two tribal perspectives weaponizing misinformation and even disinformation.

But why are those two perspectives obsessed specifically with Marehan equity in the history of Imam and the Futuh? Why are they always utilizing Marehan to even engineer disagreement? Why can't they simply just speak for their perspectives on the merits?

I crunched some numbers to understand this.

What Somali groups are referenced?

Image

In falling line for relevance?


Image

As a piece of the pie?

Image


How about Somali tribal leaders?

Image


As a piece of the pie?

Image

"Marehan" is mentioned in the Futuh 2X as much as the next Somali community and also ironically 2X as much as both of the attacking perspectives together even with the most generous acceptence of their biggest claims.

Regarding tribal leaders, Marehan tribal and military leaders specifically identified as "Marehan clan" traditional leadership are mentioned more than 50%of all mentions of Somali ethnic leaders.

I don't know if the numbers crunched are supposed to lead me to "understand" or rather "indict" why and what the two perspectives are doing...

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Khalid Ali » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:10 am

The only leader marexaan has in the Adal wars against Abyssinia was the man called goita xiraab theoderoes a man with an Abyssinian name him self hahahahah

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Gubbet » Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:02 am

The only leader marexaan has in the Adal wars against Abyssinia was the man called goita xiraab theoderoes a man with an Abyssinian name him self hahahahah
Your personality is rather odd in one way---it is almost as if you have split personality. One is sort of an akhyaar, thoughtful, and capable of giving thoughts that have made me double read---the other is coffee-shop fadhi ku dirir-esque like the middle aged Somali guy you know no matter how hard you try he cannot understand a conversation beyond "Futuh" was "buugag la qoray baa yaal." That's you in this response.

Otherwise you wouldn't say there was 1 Marehan leader identified in a book available online and which you would presumably have read. Similarly you wouldn't have called "Goyta" as Abysinnian as in opposition to Adal when, even if you don't know Hariri is Ethio-Semitic is or that the Court system in Adal and it's organization or administration was Aksumite in base (like Greco-Roman is to Western systems), presumably having read the book you would have seen the number of people with and importance of the title "Goyta" in the Imam and Adali Court (like Imam's chief envoy Goyta Allamaghan). Even more, if you had practical understanding of this history and have read more than the Futuh, for example have read Documenti Arabi Per La Storia Dell'Etiopia by Cerulli, you would have even seen that together the title "Goyta Tedros" or "Elect of God" was not even a personal name for Hirabe but a "title" like "Grand Duke" (the most important leader of the outlaying provinces capable of guaranteeing Harar's trade lines) and, although bestowed on a very few in the history of Adal, had been bestowed on more than Hiraabe's house like Goyta Adruh's house during the need to protect the Emirate of Harar a century following Emir Nur. Perhaps even if you had read even more practical history of Adalian past you would have even known "Goyta" was joined with many other forms to describe roles of crucial importance in Harar (like "Qufli Goyta" or the bearer of the keys to the 5 gates of the wall of Harar entrusted most often to heir apparent of the Emir of Harar as an act of investiture).

So my point expression of ignorance is not something you should take pride in. I don't expect you to know most of this, but you have been part of these discussions for a long time so you aren't exactly that coffee shop fadhi-ku-dirir guy who deserves the benefit of the doubt. There is no reason for you to continue to show ignorance in a subject you have interacted even strongly and partisanly in for a long time.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Khalid Ali » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:03 am

Gubbet only in ur mind is goitr hiraabo theodeores a Somali name it an abbesinian Christian name u can’t twist it and say goite means allamagan just because of ur so called translation so if u say his name wasn’t goite and it was just a tittle what his real name. Voltage beenta jooji sxb ninku nin. Marexaan oo magac xabashi leh bu aha at least claim that he was half amhara that would explain the name

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Gubbet » Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:07 am

Gubbet only in ur mind is goitr hiraabo theodeores a Somali name it an abbesinian Christian name u can’t twist it and say goite means allamagan just because of ur so called translation so if u say his name wasn’t goite and it was just a tittle what his real name. Voltage beenta jooji sxb ninku nin. Marexaan oo magac xabashi leh bu aha at least claim that he was half amhara that would explain the name
Meh.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby mahoka » Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:44 pm

Futhatul xabash book has exposed certain community as not being of Somali origin - it’s the reason we have seen so much historical revisionism from that community.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby OwQariib » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:00 pm

Brother Gubbet there is no Marehan animosity from the Karanle community. What happened between those camps was some tweeters recently played a sham circling argument that Imam Ahmed was not called the "Left Handed" in the Futuh and therefore the nickname became adopted from the Habar Maqdi chief later on. What the Karanle argue is what is called Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Since the book was written in the presence of Gragn's wife his official title was used. At no point was his Imam title even removed to just his forename. The Karanle further refer to the Ethiopians who clarify his nickname, the malasay elite troops and his clan. And there are plenty of Isaaq even from the biggest Isaaq echo chambers like Hoyga Suugaanta that confirm the same.

https://www.hoygasuugaanta.com/Maq-SuugaanDcunayso.htm

Infact we have defended Marehan history in the Futuh since some critics have charged back that Garaad Hiraabou killed a soldier and escaped to the Hawiye countryside - as to suggest here they were enemies of the Imam. By Occam's Razor we know Gragn's predecessors were fighting over a kursi so blood relatives can be enemies, but what the naked eye witnesses in the Futuh was diplomacy and Somalinimo that Marehan was not implicated in that act and they continued to take the fight to the Enemy while the Garaad was replaced with his nephew to not jeopardise his role.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Gubbet » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:25 pm

Owqariib, do you know that there are 3 "mainstream" manuscripts of the Futuh and in the order of published date

1. Italian Nerazzini who smuggled his ms fleeing Harar right before the Battle of Chelenqo where Emirate of Harar was taken by Menelik

2. D'abbadie and Austro-Hungarian Paulitschke who printed just short after D'abbadie's death

3. Rene Basset with French translation of Arthur Strong's British Museum "collection."

10 years separated the publishing date of Nerazzini's published Conquesr Musulmana dell'Etiopia and Basset's Histoire dela conquest Abissinie or whatever the titles are.

Every single modern translation from Stenhouse's english to Egyptian Shaltut's Arabic are all translations of Rene Basset's French translation.

And Basset who ended up becoming the standard form just happened to be the only one of the original 3 mainstream manuscripts that just happened to be implicated in "state power" with both the French and English official colonial authorities.

Now the reason why I even reference all of this is because---

---THE RENE BASSET TRANSLATION IS THE "ONLY" ONE THAT DECONTEXTUALIZES (AS IN PROVIDES NO BASIS/EXPLANATION) FOR HIRABE "KILLING" THE "PAGE OF SULTAN ABUBAKAR."

In Nerazzini's translation, for example, printed 10 years before Basset as the 1st published of the 3 mainstream translations----GOYTA HIRABE PROTECTED THE IMAM FROM A "COUP" BY THE BACKSTABBING ABUBAKAR WHO WAS ONLY FEIGNING ACCEPTANCE OF IMAM AUTHORITY AND GOYTA HIRABE DID THAT AS THE MOST POWERFUL LORD WITH THE ABILITY TO CONFRONT THE SULTAN OF ADAL'S INTRIGUE BEHIND THE IMAM WITH GOYTA HIRABE DOING THAT AS A REGIONAL BENEFACTOR OF THE IMAM FACILITATING HIM GAINING CONTROL OVER THE CENTRAL LEADER---ALMOST LIKE A POWERFUL TRIBAL LORD HELPING ONE OF HIS ASSETS TAKING OVER SOMALI PRESIDENCY.

And similarly after the coup is put down, there is a Cat and mouse game between Imam and Sultan Abubakar where the Sultan has been defeated but still has spiritual authority which the Imam has to smile fakely for since he has not yet reached power to do away with him completely so there is a little "charade" being played with Imam like "oh Sultan, what is the matter---you look disturbed" and the clenched teeth Sultan superficially playing back "Goyta Hirabe has attacked my household" and then the Imam, turning sideways to his partners basically eyes going "wink, wink" turning back to the Sultan like "Well that cann't be---attacking the Sultan, Goyta Hirabe must answer for this." With Goyta Hirabe being given word "we still have to fake smile for this fool, go on a little excursion while we are seen to be looking for you at home."

I mean really that is how it is CONTEXTUALIZED in the other mainstream manuscripts.

Originally I said Basset "decontextualized" this because it is not like he provided a different or new explanation, he didn't give anything---but because there was context in previous published translations, it is not just that Basset didn't give anything, HE LEFT OUT PREVIOUSLY EXISTING CONTEXT.

Do you think any of these folks implicated in the twitter nonsense even understand this?

Meh.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby OwQariib » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:24 pm

Owqariib, do you know that there are 3 "mainstream" manuscripts of the Futuh and in the order of published date

1. Italian Nerazzini who smuggled his ms fleeing Harar right before the Battle of Chelenqo where Emirate of Harar was taken by Menelik

2. D'abbadie and Austro-Hungarian Paulitschke who printed just short after D'abbadie's death

3. Rene Basset with French translation of Arthur Strong's British Museum "collection."

10 years separated the publishing date of Nerazzini's published Conquesr Musulmana dell'Etiopia and Basset's Histoire dela conquest Abissinie or whatever the titles are.

Every single modern translation from Stenhouse's english to Egyptian Shaltut's Arabic are all translations of Rene Basset's French translation.

And Basset who ended up becoming the standard form just happened to be the only one of the original 3 mainstream manuscripts that just happened to be implicated in "state power" with both the French and English official colonial authorities.

Now the reason why I even reference all of this is because---

---THE RENE BASSET TRANSLATION IS THE "ONLY" ONE THAT DECONTEXTUALIZES (AS IN PROVIDES NO BASIS/EXPLANATION) FOR HIRABE "KILLING" THE "PAGE OF SULTAN ABUBAKAR."

In Nerazzini's translation, for example, printed 10 years before Basset as the 1st published of the 3 mainstream translations----GOYTA HIRABE PROTECTED THE IMAM FROM A "COUP" BY THE BACKSTABBING ABUBAKAR WHO WAS ONLY FEIGNING ACCEPTANCE OF IMAM AUTHORITY AND GOYTA HIRABE DID THAT AS THE MOST POWERFUL LORD WITH THE ABILITY TO CONFRONT THE SULTAN OF ADAL'S INTRIGUE BEHIND THE IMAM WITH GOYTA HIRABE DOING THAT AS A REGIONAL BENEFACTOR OF THE IMAM FACILITATING HIM GAINING CONTROL OVER THE CENTRAL LEADER---ALMOST LIKE A POWERFUL TRIBAL LORD HELPING ONE OF HIS ASSETS TAKING OVER SOMALI PRESIDENCY.

And similarly after the coup is put down, there is a Cat and mouse game between Imam and Sultan Abubakar where the Sultan has been defeated but still has spiritual authority which the Imam has to smile fakely for since he has not yet reached power to do away with him completely so there is a little "charade" being played with Imam like "oh Sultan, what is the matter---you look disturbed" and the clenched teeth Sultan superficially playing back "Goyta Hirabe has attacked my household" and then the Imam, turning sideways to his partners basically eyes going "wink, wink" turning back to the Sultan like "Well that cann't be---attacking the Sultan, Goyta Hirabe must answer for this." With Goyta Hirabe being given word "we still have to fake smile for this fool, go on a little excursion while we are seen to be looking for you at home."

I mean really that is how it is CONTEXTUALIZED in the other mainstream manuscripts.

Originally I said Basset "decontextualized" this because it is not like he provided a different or new explanation, he didn't give anything---but because there was context in previous published translations, it is not just that Basset didn't give anything, HE LEFT OUT PREVIOUSLY EXISTING CONTEXT.

Do you think any of these folks implicated in the twitter nonsense even understand this?

Meh.

Gubbet, very nice summary. I think of Khalid bin Waleed and Malik bin Nuwayra that started off as the latter killed refusing to pay tax while the news reached Medina that Khalid took Malik's wife. He was admonished by Abu Bakr and Omar RAH who wanted him demoted but he stayed on following advice from the then late Prophet pbuh who noted Khalid's previous ferocity in dealing with Banu Jadhima. There are some exceptions in every history, we completely deplore any irresponsible mistranslations in the book, especially on noblemen that are sons of leaders. The Marehan (Abti-Sade) is the first born of Darod, they and Geri (Bah Hawiye) are closely related to us and any reflection on them is a reflection of us.

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Re: There is an odd obsession with Futuh on Twitter oddly expressed in Marehan-resentment so I crunched some numbers...

Postby Gubbet » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:51 pm

Owqariib, do you know that there are 3 "mainstream" manuscripts of the Futuh and in the order of published date

1. Italian Nerazzini who smuggled his ms fleeing Harar right before the Battle of Chelenqo where Emirate of Harar was taken by Menelik

2. D'abbadie and Austro-Hungarian Paulitschke who printed just short after D'abbadie's death

3. Rene Basset with French translation of Arthur Strong's British Museum "collection."

10 years separated the publishing date of Nerazzini's published Conquesr Musulmana dell'Etiopia and Basset's Histoire dela conquest Abissinie or whatever the titles are.

Every single modern translation from Stenhouse's english to Egyptian Shaltut's Arabic are all translations of Rene Basset's French translation.

And Basset who ended up becoming the standard form just happened to be the only one of the original 3 mainstream manuscripts that just happened to be implicated in "state power" with both the French and English official colonial authorities.

Now the reason why I even reference all of this is because---

---THE RENE BASSET TRANSLATION IS THE "ONLY" ONE THAT DECONTEXTUALIZES (AS IN PROVIDES NO BASIS/EXPLANATION) FOR HIRABE "KILLING" THE "PAGE OF SULTAN ABUBAKAR."

In Nerazzini's translation, for example, printed 10 years before Basset as the 1st published of the 3 mainstream translations----GOYTA HIRABE PROTECTED THE IMAM FROM A "COUP" BY THE BACKSTABBING ABUBAKAR WHO WAS ONLY FEIGNING ACCEPTANCE OF IMAM AUTHORITY AND GOYTA HIRABE DID THAT AS THE MOST POWERFUL LORD WITH THE ABILITY TO CONFRONT THE SULTAN OF ADAL'S INTRIGUE BEHIND THE IMAM WITH GOYTA HIRABE DOING THAT AS A REGIONAL BENEFACTOR OF THE IMAM FACILITATING HIM GAINING CONTROL OVER THE CENTRAL LEADER---ALMOST LIKE A POWERFUL TRIBAL LORD HELPING ONE OF HIS ASSETS TAKING OVER SOMALI PRESIDENCY.

And similarly after the coup is put down, there is a Cat and mouse game between Imam and Sultan Abubakar where the Sultan has been defeated but still has spiritual authority which the Imam has to smile fakely for since he has not yet reached power to do away with him completely so there is a little "charade" being played with Imam like "oh Sultan, what is the matter---you look disturbed" and the clenched teeth Sultan superficially playing back "Goyta Hirabe has attacked my household" and then the Imam, turning sideways to his partners basically eyes going "wink, wink" turning back to the Sultan like "Well that cann't be---attacking the Sultan, Goyta Hirabe must answer for this." With Goyta Hirabe being given word "we still have to fake smile for this fool, go on a little excursion while we are seen to be looking for you at home."

I mean really that is how it is CONTEXTUALIZED in the other mainstream manuscripts.

Originally I said Basset "decontextualized" this because it is not like he provided a different or new explanation, he didn't give anything---but because there was context in previous published translations, it is not just that Basset didn't give anything, HE LEFT OUT PREVIOUSLY EXISTING CONTEXT.

Do you think any of these folks implicated in the twitter nonsense even understand this?

Meh.

Gubbet, very nice summary. I think of Khalid bin Waleed and Malik bin Nuwayra that started off as the latter killed refusing to pay tax while the news reached Medina that Khalid took Malik's wife. He was admonished by Abu Bakr and Omar RAH who wanted him demoted but he stayed on following advice from the then late Prophet pbuh who noted Khalid's previous ferocity in dealing with Banu Jadhima. There are some exceptions in every history, we completely deplore any irresponsible mistranslations in the book, especially on noblemen that are sons of leaders. The Marehan (Abti-Sade) is the first born of Darod, they and Geri (Bah Hawiye) are closely related to us and any reflection on them is a reflection of us.
This response is so noble it ironically is the only one that actually does what all these people premeditated on "disinheriting" Marehan from their Futuh equity actually wants to achieve---namely it makes even me, a Marehan, identify with this history less as a "Marehan" and more as a "Somali." Sxb even "Goyta Hiraabe" is your equity as a Somali. Both his nobility, power as well as his shrewd, scheming sneakiness. That's a dodgy Somali tribal leader, it ain't just a Marehan. :lol: Even the specifically identified "Marehan" archers so instrumental @ the battle of Badeqe is no more my heritage than yours as a Somali. This was the Conquest of Abyssinia primarily by Somali Muslim but not even limited to them. When you speak as noble as you did above, you disarm even my "interest" to view any aspect of it from a place of exclusion. Ahmed Girri bin Hussain is my heritage, Garad Matan is my heritage, Goyta Hiraabe is my heritage; the Marehan, Gorgorrah, and Hawiye spearmen are all my heritage and they are all just as much, and not a grain of sand less or more, your heritage as well. Nin rag ah. And truthfully, I am much more comfortable in, satisfied by, and pleased with having this heirloom in our joint custody inclusively as Somalis than having it soiled by the negativity, exclusion, and limitations of petty tribalism. It is not even fair to the history itself. This history represents uniting for greater ideal not dividing into limiting articles. :up:


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