Lower Your Gays

[Gifted]

Okay, so what you are saying is that they were not good muslims to begin with? How can a pre-adolescent be considered deviant at such a young age, I am assuming we are dealing with someone in their early teens.

Well, homosexuality isnt exactly natural, thats why I referred to the Laws of Nature, but I do agree humans are not perfect.

[FAH1223]

Gifted you seem to be in the fence and might think one day homosexuality is natural, especially if you keep hanging out with them.

Having thoughts of homosexuality is haram

The act is haram

and they are all sins

Simple

[Gifted]

I dont think homosexuality is a natural act. The fact that people are claiming that these people are in fact programmed to feel this way is what bothers me so much. If they have no choice in the way that they feel, how could they be punished for it?

[Starscream]

I didn't say that they are deviants as in being muslim, but deviant from humanity. Assuming we're speaking of homosexual feelings and not acts. Once they act upon their homosexual desires, we're entering a whole new discussion which I rather not engage in, because it disgusts me.

To make it simple, homosexuality is not a sexual orientation but a sick sexual fetish in my book. A sexual fetish, one is unfortunate to be born to possibly, but never impossible to resist. It's interesting to know that sexual fetishes only manifest itself when the person is exposed to the experience in some way or another. I do believe that brain construction and genetic makeup play a role, but it needs to be conditioned in order for it to become an issue in one's life.

I hope I shed some light on some of that darkness Gifted.

[Lil_Cutie..]

Theres such thing as Towba... is accessible to anyone and everyone. Allah is all forgiving.
It is wrong for us as Muslims to call someone else who says Laillaha illalah wa muhammadan rusullah a kafir. SubhanAllah, I read someone if we do, Allah will make us a Kafir on judgement day Acudubillah. Only Allah knows what is contained in our hearts..

Having said that, the people of Lut (as) were distroyed because of this act..Homosexuality, if I am not distaken.

[Gifted]

Starscream

I like the fact that you pointed out that homosexuality is infact a fetish of some sort and is thus probably a cause of the environment. I guess one could also argue that heterosexuality is a cause of the environment as well.

[Koronto91]

I dont think homosexuality is a natural act. The fact that people are claiming that these people are in fact programmed to feel this way is what bothers me so much. If they have no choice in the way that they feel, how could they be punished for it?

Those who claim its a natural act only do it out of desparation. Its a chosen lifestyle, nobody was forced in to choosing that lewd lifestyle. Allah doesn't make mistakes and he does not punish people who have an ailment e.g. mentally challenged people.

According to the Prophet (saw), it was learnt from the devils and humans adopted it in to their lifestyle. Its all in the link I provided.


Lil_Cutie,

Here's the story of the people of Nabi Lut (as) as told by Sh. Anwar Al Awlaki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXS3UJJJ8k

[Lil_Cutie..]

Koronto, JazzakAllah.. I have Anwar's collection on my iPod! Alhamdulilah its brilliant, money well spent!! MashaAllah I love the way he narrates stories and puts you in there .. May Allah elevate him to the highest level of Jannah. Aameen

[Gifted]

Are both a product of the environment or are humans programmed this way? Whether we act upon it, is ofcourse our choice. But, the point is whether those feelings are chosen or not.

[Koronto91]

:D Koronto, JazzakAllah.. I have Anwar's collection on my iPod! Alhamdulilah its brilliant, money well spent!! MashaAllah I love the way he narrates stories and puts you in there .. May Allah elevate him to the highest level of Jannah. Aameen

Aamiin. He's awesome!

This site has free MP3 lectures of Sh. Anwar:

http://aswatalislam.net/search.aspx?strSearch=awlaki

[Koronto91]

Gifted,

Its a chosen lifestyle, just listen to this lecture which discusses the origins of it, the fate of the people of Nabi Lut (as) and its consequences, its all in this lecture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXS3UJJJ8k

[Enlightened~Sista]

Homosexuality is indeed contrary to the very nature and existence of humanity. Before any religion condemns such acts the natural makeup of our being rejects this condition as part of our innate sense. In other words homosexual acts are a prohibition of nature. Religion has only reiterated this prohibition. Whether one society or another deems it acceptable to commit homosexual acts does not affect the reality that our very physical construct dictates the correct sexual behavior. One may argue attraction or inclination but the evidence is manifest in our physical existence. While this deals with the natural forbiddance, religion only reinforces it. However, in none of the monotheistic religions is there an allusion as to whether this is acquired or an in-born condition. Religions are for the purpose of guidance not an elucidation of the human mind, character or scientific causes of things. Hence, it is a misunderstanding to believe that these religions make the claim that it is an acquired state or even that science has proven that it is there from the "beginning." Science has been up and down about this issue for quite some time. At one point the American Psychiatric Association on their DSM-II listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. The research regarding its removal is one that you would have to endeavor to see if science did indeed make such advancements that would bring them to correct the list. Nevertheless, the point of the matter is that even science has not pinned down the nature of this condition.

As it regards to the prophet Lot, the interpretation you present distorts the fact of the matter. The men of Lot's community had decided to commit wrong. They were going against every act of righteousness that existed. They were the polar opposite of anything good. Their condition was not innate nor does the Qur'an suggest so, rather, it suggests a rebelliousness of nature, of truth, of goodness against themselves and God. If a people purposefully commit any crime then they are to deal with the consequences. However, a remedy is simple and clear for those who act in ways they know are wrong and that is to return to God and ask for forgiveness. The corrective measures are clear in the Qur'an though not regarding homosexuality but rather the entirety of evil that people commit. If, as you say, homosexuality is not some sort of ailment then surely it will not be found in the Qur'an especially considering that it is not a book of cures. The point is well taken that people in this condition may need help, however, that is the very reason we are given the abilities and skills and the minds to achieve so much. Science may well one day discover why some people are a certain way and may be able to help them if so needed. Religious texts, as mentioned before, are not for providing medical or psychological help. In the Qur'an's case it has the role of being a Reminder and Guidance.

Whether a person can change his or her sexual preference is of no concern and is beyond the scope of religious teachings. However, there has been research that disagrees with your views and this can only be verified by the research you commit yourself to. To sum up it should be clear that homosexual acts are condemned. Those who believe themselves homosexuals yet do not partake in the acts are not in the same category. The Qur'anic solution to anything is to lead towards a relationship with the Almighty. It is to fine-tune the human soul with its Creator. There is much sickness and disease on earth and if homosexuality belongs to any such category surely seeking treatment would be the right thing to do. After all doctors do not simply tell their patients that they are perfectly normal and should accept their condition regardless of the harm it may cause.

Ronnie Hassan http://www.understanding-islam.org

[Basra-]

Ok..Starscream is suddenly a fascinating character to me, dont even ask me why!


My God, i liked the way u expressed yourself. Wow, i am shocked and impressed. Your reasonings does not seem uninformed or disinterested or even ignorant. You sound like a person in full grasp of the situation.


'Once they act upon their homosexual desires, we're entering a whole new discussion which I rather not engage in, because it disgusts me.'


Really?? Does it, huh? Well i am sorry if it disgusts u, but i would appreciate if you could indulge me in talking about it, just a little!






'I didn't say that they are deviants as in being muslim, but deviant from humanity. '


What?? Starscream ...u seem to cherish humanity more than muslimhood.Why is homosexual feelings deviant in humanity but not in being a muslim--i mean, isn't Islam, practice by muslim stating it is in fact, a deviant act?Why bring humanity in the mix?And why value Huminaity more than Islam! Starscream ....r u a closeted philosopher,meaning an atheist? A closeted Khanis? I am just curious macaanto!





Gifted- u crack me up too! It seems u r stumbling around with fearful toes- u want to say homosexuality is natural but u r afraid of the lynching backlarsh. Which is cute and comical, i think !





Starscream : This does not mean -- i dont find u highly cute and intelligent. New feelings have manifested in me, should i say!

[Starscream]

Starscream

I like the fact that you pointed out that homosexuality is infact a fetish of some sort and is thus probably a cause of the environment. I guess one could also argue that heterosexuality is a cause of the environment as well.

That would be a hard argument to make, considering we have genitalia to prove otherwise.

There was a research that came up with some interesting results, stating that everybody's a little bit gay to some extent. And the people considering themselves gay, being heterosexual to some extent, the extent of it differing by person just as the former. The problem is that westerners, even their scientists, have the tendency to use incorrect terminology. The research should have stated that men and women all have a certain amount of opposite sex psyche, again differing in extent. What I explained to you earlier about nature, this makes sense. Nothing is black and white on this earth.

Now the chemical imbalance, when the psyche of the opposite sex has surpassed a point in which it defies the norm, is the problem and has tilted in favor of his female self or her male self in such a way that it influences its sexual preferences. Like Koronto said, they are not mistakes and nor does Allah punish them for this predicament. It's not a blessing nor a curse from Allah, but a test.

[Enlightened~Sista]

Are both a product of the environment or are humans programmed this way? Whether we act upon it, is ofcourse our choice. But, the point is whether those feelings are chosen or not.

God created us in pairs males and females. Hope that answers your question.