Islam--is our religion flawed?

[Shilling]

ibrox, your using half represent verses from the Qur'an to make Islam seem a religion that breeds radicalism...I mean how could we even debate when your lacking honesty?

This is the verse you used to make Islam seem a religion that breeds radicalism:

4:91 "Take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant."

First of all, like I said this is a half represented verse since it seem you hand picked the part you thought would support your claim and secondly, the point your trying to make and the point the verse is trying to make are two different things since your talking about breeding radicalism and the verse is encouraging Muslim to protect themselves from those trying to destroy it.

Here examine the full verse with me:

004.091: "You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority."

Now, could you honestly say this verse is breeding radicalism?

The verse is obviously trying to tell Muslims to protect themselves from aggressors who deny them peace by encouraging them to fight back, yet here you are trying to take it out of context. Don't you see the irony in this; here you are talking about Islam being flawed when in all sense of the word you're the one that is flawed.

[LadyKastumo]

I've been reading this board for a while and thought I'd finally join and make a thread. I really don't know how this thread will be received, but here goes:

As a Somali living in the US, I feel conflicted. Although I have considerable affinity for my fellow Muslims, I belief that Islamic teachings are the root cause of atrocities like 9/11 or London 7/7/05. I'm not saying that all Muslims bare the blame--I'm saying Islam is what led to these events, and so long as we continue to avoid this reality we of the Islamic diaspora are putting ourselves in considerable danger.

Islam teaches--and calls for--the supremacy of Islam by any means. We recognize Jews and Christians as "people of the book" but Buddhists and Hindus and all the other religions of the world are to us beneath contempt, and if such people ever come under our power, we are quick to persecute them. Here is a conversation I had with a Muslim who is very close to me:

me: Islam teaches intolerance and hatred of different religions. It doesn't teach co-existance.

Muslim: That's not true! Islam treats Jews and Christians with respect!

me: What about Hindus?

Muslim: But that's different!

I swear I always think about this conversation. How is it different? Just because Judaism and Christianity influenced Islam we exempt them from the contempt with which we regard all other non-Abrahamic religions? Islam stridently divides the world into believers and non-believers--but Islam has a overwhelming supremacist element to it that is utterly troublesome for these non-believers. In Indonesia, Muslim extremists behead Christian school girls. This sort of barbarity--whether 9/11 or the murder of Christian school girls--doesn't seem to bother Muslims as much as some cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. Shouldn't this be a cause of concern?

Islam retards progress by making secularism nearly impossible. In order for a country to economically, scientifically and culturally prosper in needs institutions that are secular--religious sentiment must be a personal issue and not a matter of the state. Islam demands Sharia--that is, the subjugation of all aspects of life under the rule of God. No one has the choice to opt out. What are the consequences for society? Poverty, ignorance, dictatorships--countries unable to provide for the common good and their people. Here is the terrible irony: Fanatical Muslims dream of overcoming the West but they never realize that strict adherence to Islam makes such a victory impossible. Okay, say you take on the West. What do you need? Technological supremacy. How is that achieved? By secular institutions--by the respect for science and progress. But as I said earlier the Islamic doctrine
makes such achievements impossible. So these fanatics are in a considerable bind--they want to "beat" the West and spread Islam but in order to so...they must become like the West! And that process of becoming like the West is surely guaranteed to lessen their extremism!

I am tired of being represented by these fanatics. Every time they commit terrorism and mention Allah and Jihad--we of the Islamic diaspora are closer to danger. Consider Europe. Muslims there and elsewhere hope to keep breeding and gain influence by their sheer numbers. But if these Muslims keep misbehaving, aren't the indigenous European populations at some point going to say "Enough" and expel those Muslims? Consider this rational: There is no way to tell a good muslim from a terrorist, so the only option is...kicking all Muslims out. It does have a terrible logic to it doesn't it? After all, various Arab countries expelled their Jewish populations because Israel was created...and those Jews clearly didn't present any sort of threat. Whose to say the West won't behave the same when Muslims--given the prevalence of extremism in the Islamic world and the fact that Muslims might...and already do... present a threat?

Thankfully I was never really religious--even in Somalia as a boy I simply went through the motions of prayer but, for whatever reason, my heart was never in it. But I remember the shame I felt on 9/11--the shame and the guilt, because I knew that Islam was responsible.

UFF xaaji laba labo....Thankfully I was never really religious--even in Somalia as a boy I simply went through the motions of prayer but, for whatever reason, my heart was never in it. But I remember the shame I felt on 9/11--the shame and the guilt, because I knew that Islam was responsible.

War get outta here....

[Shirib]

Versus of terror from the Bible

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.


Deuteronomy
Chapter 7

1-6

1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them: 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13

6-18

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

Why do u bring the Qu'ran and make it seem evil, using versus that were brought down when the Arabs were oppressing and killing Muslims and it was given to fightback.

The bible says to kill every living creature. To kill infants, why does Christianity go on trial for Christian extremists.

Islam never says to kill any innocent person, while the bible is justifying infact encouraging genocide, telling the followers to commit genocide. Why is Christianity not put on trial.

U r preaching what western media preaches, ur really practically quoting them.

[Shirib]

Let me ask you believers a question: Remember the story of how the Mountain went to Mohamed? Okay, a whole mountain got up and came to Mohamed. Don't you think that in this day and age we'd have GEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE of such a thing happening? I mean, it's a beautiful story, but do you all REALLY belief that such a thing happened and if so how do you account for the lack of evidence?

I have never heard of this story

[KlashneFolk]

Mr. KlashneFolk, i hate to break it to you but this isn't about Censorship. I know you have a problem with the new rules and the way i enforce them but if you wish to show support for someone who dares to question my religion and whose intentions i do not know, then i have no choice but to consider you a threat as well.

Dude, I have no problem with you. Never have never will. Simply put, the issue I have with you is your obvious biases and immature tactics against members because they just happen to have different opinion than yours. I don't give a dime about you or your religion.

[RebelLion]

Who ever this guy is, there is nothing wrong with him voicing he's opinion so long as he's respectful. Besides, youngnfresh and shirib have done a great job of refuting him. This is what islam should be about, not just going ape shit whenever someone has a different point of view.

[Shilling]

Islam teaches--and calls for--the supremacy of Islam by any means. We recognize Jews and Christians as "people of the book" but Buddhists and Hindus and all the other religions of the world are to us beneath contempt, and if such people ever come under our power, we are quick to persecute them. Here is a conversation I had with a Muslim who is very close to me:

me: Islam teaches intolerance and hatred of different religions. It doesn't teach co-existance.

Muslim: That's not true! Islam treats Jews and Christians with respect!

me: What about Hindus?

Muslim: But that's different!

When it come to unbelievers and atheists, this is what the Qur'an reads:

Chapter 109: AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

109.001: Say: O unbelievers!
109.002: I do not serve that which you serve,
109.003: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
109.004: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
109.005: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
109.006: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

ibroX, this chapter clearly indicated that all disbelievers should be left alone so long as they do not try to undermine Islam. So if it is few Muslims who you saw using Islam to further their own little backward interest by taking it out of context then I suggest you learn to differentiate between them and Islam, because Islam teaches nothing but peace.

[Aliyah99]

No it aint flawed now fuck off

[KlashneFolk]

I didn't know we had these many closet-religious freaks in here

[RebelLion]

somali's are religious by words only, not deeds, at least most of them. waa iska part time.

[KlashneFolk]

somali's are religious by words only, not deeds, at least most of them. waa iska part time.

True. Lousy part-timers

[FAH1223]

We can make some assumptions.

Islam is the one and only religion, the perfect religion. The followers are not because we are human.

This person is not Somali and never was a Muslim. We can make that assumption because they just registered on the board to rile us up, but alxamdullilah, everyone came to silence him. He is repeating the statements of the gaalo and trying to diffuse Islam. What does Allah Say?

Their intention is to extinguish Allah's Light (by blowing) with their mouths: But Allah will complete (the revelation of) His Light, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). (Suratul Saaf 61:8)

[Shirib]

Ibrox

i still don't see what ur questioning. I have made a case against everything u have said. What is their left.

[KlashneFolk]

The Thread is no longer closed! Yeaaaa

[Enlightened~Sista]