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Migration to Abyssinia

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TheMightyNomad
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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:39 pm

So you are telling me this is the Migration to Zeila and not Abyssinia and that that is where the king was and they sought refuge?
Like i said. Where they allegedly sought refuge and where the refuged in is two seperate realities. The reality is that they migrated to Zeila Somalia and then thereafter to Aksum.
You are funny :clap: . Your source states carbon dating for other sites, have you even read it properly? Site 80 (Zeila) on your source is discussed and it suggests through oral history.
My source states during the period in which the qiblah pointed towards jerusalem before being changed to mekha. Which was during the beginning of Hijra. Since the Mosque in Somalia undoubtedly points to Jerusalem its proof enough.

So yes Archeological contruction of history proves it to be true.
Zeila in the grey circle, maybe you should go over geography as well, Somalia is not closer :clap: :
Image

Totally plausible as the Somali coast is closest to the Southern Arabian border (Distance between the Gulf of Aden). Which could be the possible migration route taken.



Your source states
The ancient Qiblatayn mosque in Zayla/Zaila/Saylac (80) is believed to align in two directions, one facing Mecca and one facing Jerusalem. Earliest Muslims were praying towards Jerusalem. According to oral history, it is one of the earliest or indeed the earliest mosque in sub-Saharan Africa.
"is believed to" :-@ " :-@ according to oral history". Stop talking about dating, no dating has been done.
Combination of Archeological (Mosque towards Jerusalem) and oral history is a valid construction. You are not making a point.
And also stop sending that study because I have read it and quite embarrassingly, I don't think you have.
The migration was within that time frame. There was still several years left over. Find me another source apart from one of a lander using oral history to confirm this.
This is what i call ''Confirmation Bias''. Which is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.

The simple fact that you ignore the reported archeological evidence which indicates that it points towards Jerusalem and emphasize ''oral history'' as means to decredit it.
This was about the migration to Abyssinia where the king in Aksum (not saylac) allowed them to seek refuge... why have you even brought up Saylac overall????? I don't wish to discuss this with you anymore
Zeila was the crossing path to Aksum. So they landed in there first before they made their way to their pre-described destination.

How immature are you? The simple fact that you cannot entertain a single view or belief that contradicts your own shows how you are not an educated minded person.

For an educated mind can entertain a thought without accepting it..

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby hoa » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:52 pm

.
Djibouti is closest, followed by Eritrea, and then Somalia. Even if you use the ruler to measure, even ethiopia is closer to southern arabia than somalia :clap: .
Facing Jerusalem means nothing within a time frame. This migration, and EVEN the second migration happened in-between the time frame you gave me. Again, the mosque hasn't been dated, so this could have been any time between this time frame you gave me on the first page. The only exact year dated for the Zeila mosque I've seen is the year 627AD. You are stating a possibility.. until the mosque is dated, you can stop directing all history towards Somaliland.
And if you know they seeked refuge in Aksum then why did you bring Zeila up? Did you not read my first post? I did not need to mention the so-called Zeila.
The town evolved into an early Islamic center with the arrival of Muslims shortly after the hijra.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:00 pm

.....
''Landing safely on the African sidde of the Red Sea, the Arab Muslims sought protection in the Christian kingdom of Aksum or Axum (modern Ethiopia). One the cities the refugees settled was Zeila (Zeyla), which is now part of modern Somalia''

https://books.google.com/books?id=FlL2v ... ra&f=false
Last edited by TheMightyNomad on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:00 pm

.....

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby hoa » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:07 pm

.....
''Landing safely on the African sidde of the Red Sea, the Arab Muslims sought protection in the Christian kingdom of Aksum or Axum (modern Ethiopia). One the cities the refugees settled was Zeila (Zeyla), which is now part of modern Somalia''

https://books.google.com/books?id=FlL2v ... ra&f=false
So now we are under Aksum rule? Funny. Going this far to prove your point. Zeila was under Aksumite rule much later than this.

I've also checked source 28, the one he used to write that line and there is no mention of Zeila in the book he referred to :clap: .http://www.dskmariam.org/artsandlitreat ... /aksum.pdf

He basically wrote utter crap. THis is what was in the book he used:
It has been suggested (Creswell, see Ullendorff 1960: 154) that the man who re-built the Ka`ba at Mecca in 608AD was an Aksumite. His name was Bakum, and he used the wood retrieved from a shipwreck to build a structure of wood and stone layers which sounds very like the typical Aksumite architectural style as represented by, for example, Dabra Damo church. In 615AD, at the time of the prophet Muhammad's mission, the Ethiopians were involved in a certain amount of diplomatic activity with the Quraysh tribe, the mercantile rulers of Mecca. The reigning najashi, whom the Arab chroniclers refer to as Ashama ibn Abjar (see Ch. 15: 4), offered asylum to Muslim political exiles, who entered the country in two waves. The first hijra, or flight, in the 7th month of the 5th year of Muhammad's mission (615), consisted of eleven men and four wives, who came via the old port of Mecca, Shu`ayba. These returned after three months, due to the false report that the Quraysh had been converted to Islam. The second hijra eventually amounted to one hundred and one Muslims, 83 of the m men, and these did not all return

until 628 (Muir 1923: 69). The najashi, in spite of gifts and representations from the Quraysh, refused to hand the Muslims over.
At different times many famous names in Islam were to seek the najashi's hospitality, including Muhammad's daughter Ruqayya, and two of his future wives, Umm Habiba and Umm Salama or Hind, who described Maryam Tseyon church at Aksum to the prophet on his deathbed (Ch. 13: 3). Umm Habiba's former husband was `Ubaydalla, a Quraysh convert to Islam who emigrated to Ethiopia where he adopted Christianity, and died confessing that faith (Muir 1923: 36). It was the najashi himself who contracted the marriage of Umm Habiba to Muhammad, which occurred when she returned in 628. Another famous exile was `Uthman b. Affan, who eventually became khalifa in 644AD. The conqueror of Egypt, `Amr ibn al-Asi, was actually received into Islam, if one credits the tradition (Guillaume 1955: 484) by the najashi acting on behalf of the prophet. Because of this kindness to his followers, Muhammad is said to have exempted Ethiopia from the jihad or holy war of Islam. According to Muslim tradition, in AH.6/627-8AD Muhammad himself is said to have sent an embassy to the najashi and other rulers; the contents of his letter (which many authorities doubt was ever actually written) are reproduced by Tabari and others, and an actual copy of the letter, undoubtedly a forgery, was published by Dunlop (1940). All this occurred very close to the time when it is suggested that Aksum was abandoned as the capital (Ch. 15: 4).

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:14 pm

Djibouti is closest, followed by Eritrea, and then Somalia. Even if you use the ruler to measure, even ethiopia is closer to southern arabia than somalia :clap: .
Eritrea coast is not on the side of the Gulf of Aden and Ethiopia by modern definition is landlocked. So how can it have any closer proximaty to the Southern Arabian coast then Somalia? Espescially since Somali coast is along the Gulf of Aden.
Facing Jerusalem means nothing within a time frame.
The time frame indicates that it was constructed during the hijra which means alot.

This migration, and EVEN the second migration happened in-between the time frame you gave me. Again, the mosque hasn't been dated, so this could have been any time between this time frame you gave me on the first page. The only exact year dated for the Zeila mosque I've seen is the year 627AD. You are stating a possibility.. until the mosque is dated, you can stop directing all history towards Somaliland.
And if you know they seeked refuge in Aksum then why did you bring Zeila up? Did you not read my first post? I did not need to mention the so-called Zeila.
The date between the first Hijra is (615 CE) to 628(CE). The construction of the qiblahs which point towards Jerusalem lasted from from 610 CE until 623 CE. Seventeen months after the Islamic prophet Muhammad's 622 CE arrival in Medina.

Which puts it during the first Hijra. If they never crossed Zeila b during the first migration to Aksum and went directly to Ethiopia from the Eritrean coast. How do you explain this?

The town evolved into an early Islamic center with the arrival of Muslims shortly after the hijra.
[/quote]

That is an assertion not an evident claim. Because if that was true then how do you explain away the Archeological evidence which solidly puts the Arival of Muslims during the first Hijra?

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby hoa » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:19 pm

That is an assertion not an evident claim. Because if that was true then how do you explain away the Archeological evidence which solidly puts the Arival of Muslims during the first Hijra?
The second Hijra was still in the time frame :-@ There was still time left even after this.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:22 pm

So now we are under Aksum rule? Funny. Going this far to prove your point. Zeila was under Aksumite rule much later than this.
The point i was making was it makes no difference what random source you pull up from Google books you still have to reason and argue it.

The Source itself is only a refrence as it is largely driven by the authors subjective opinion. Unlike Archeological evidence which is objective.
Last edited by TheMightyNomad on Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby hoa » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:24 pm

Djibouti is closest, followed by Eritrea, and then Somalia. Even if you use the ruler to measure, even ethiopia is closer to southern arabia than somalia :clap: .
Eritrea coast is not on the side of the Gulf of Aden and Ethiopia by modern definition is landlocked. So how can it have any closer proximaty to the Southern Arabian coast then Somalia? Espescially since Somali coast is along the Gulf of Aden.
So? Eritrea is still closer to mainland Arabia than Somalia is? What, so because you got the distance wrong to Arabia, now you want to start talking about the Gulf of Aden? The closest distance from Ethiopia to Yemen is around 76 miles, and for Somalia it's around 87 miles. Go measure it with a ruler. I'm done talking, Tutankhamun was also a Somali from Somaliland.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby hoa » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:25 pm

So now we are under Aksum rule? Funny. Going this far to prove your point. Zeila was under Aksumite rule much later than this.
The point i was making was it makes no difference what random source you pull up from Google books you still have reason and argue it.

The Source itself is only a refrence as it is largely driven by the authors subjective opinion. Unlike Archeological evidence which is objective.
bye now :arrow:

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:30 pm

The second Hijra was still in the time frame :-@ There was still time left even after this.
The second Hijra was the migration was around the same time frame as the first one. If they did cross through Eritrea and Zeila on their way to Aksum is still begs the question? of why the existence of mosque proves otherwise.

But it eliminates the notion that this was after the Hijra. As we know the qiblah direction was changed after Hijra and not before it.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby LightAtNight » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:31 pm

ThemightyNomad, I think I know who you are

your no teenager :lol:

I will however keep this info to myself

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:36 pm

So? Eritrea is still closer to mainland Arabia than Somalia is?
I am differentiating between the part of Arabia connected to the Red Sea and The part of Arabia connected to the Gulf of Aden.
What, so because you got the distance wrong to Arabia, now you want to start talking about the Gulf of Aden? The closest distance from Ethiopia to Yemen is around 76 miles, and for Somalia it's around 87 miles.
I am not talking about the distance i am talking about the connections of the coasts. Highlighting the fact that Southern Arabian coast is connected the Somali coast via the Gulf of Aden.

Which is one of the potentially plausible migration taken by the Sahaba.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby TheMightyNomad » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:41 pm

Tutankhamun was also a Somali from Somaliland.
Saaxiib leave the Hotep We Wuz Kangz mumbjo jumbo out of it.

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Re: Migration to Abyssinia

Postby GalliumerianSlayer » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:55 am

Mighty AXUM empire, what brilliant history they have.


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