Did You Vote for the TFG in 2004?

[eternauta]

I'd like to know how the four people that chose 'Yes' voted for for the TFG? There was no ballots and it was just A/Y buying the Hawiye warlords votes for peanuts

So you admit the whole fiasco was about a super-warlord buying the votes of other warlords?

[QansaGabeyle]

Lol@MJ-pride.........it is probably somali_boqor, shilling, jr* and Ashlee. I respect these guys for having such an amazing loyalty to the TFG........only if the rest of us supported an organization, we would be in a better position.

[Shirib]

Lol@MJ-pride.........it is probably somali_boqor, shilling, jr* and Ashlee. I respect these guys for having such an amazing loyalty to the TFG........only if the rest of us supported an organization, we would be in a better position.

Nah one of those votes was mine and I think ZackAbdul was another.

[MJ-Pride]

I'd like to know how the four people that chose 'Yes' voted for for the TFG? There was no ballots and it was just A/Y buying the Hawiye warlords votes for peanuts

So you admit the whole fiasco was about a super-warlord buying the votes of other warlords?

Since when I denied that? You think Hawiye will chose a Darood president? Its was the hungry warlords that made it possible. The average Moqdisho people didn't elcect A.Y

[1nemansquad]

How could we vote? None of us were near anywhere where the election took place, if there was an election.

I don't know about you, but pro-TFG's argue an overwhelming majority of Somalis voted for the TFG. Perhaps they mean the kaabo qabiils and warlords who supposedly represent Somalis elected the TFG. Do you have a kaabo qabiil and warlord who represent you? I have none.

Very strange argument. There are kaabo qabiil representatives that might represent the qabiils forumers here are who are pro TFG but how does that succeed as our votes for the TFG?

Keep in mind majority of these kaabo qabiils are there because the people back-home elected them customarily or some of them designated themselves to be the kaabo qabiils without our say-so marka abti, what is your logic here?

[Goljano Lion]

I'd like to know how the four people that chose 'Yes' voted for for the TFG? There was no ballots and it was just A/Y buying the Hawiye warlords votes for peanuts

So you admit the whole fiasco was about a super-warlord buying the votes of other warlords?

Shirib sxb give credit where its due, Abdilahi yusuf outsmarted hutu warlords and outmaneuvered them.

[Shilling]

10 October 2004 Presidential Election (Chosen by the 275-member Transitional Federal Parliament)

First Round
Total Votes.............................275
Abstentions/Invalid Votes..........2
Total Valid Votes......................273

Second Round
Total Votes.............................275
Abstentions/Invalid Votes..........7
Total Valid Votes......................268

Third Round
Total Votes.............................275
Abstentions/Invalid Votes..........7
Total Valid Votes......................268


Candidates
Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed
Abdullahi Ahmed Adow
Mohammed Qanyare Afrah
Abdulrahman Jamma Barre
Abdulkassim Salat Hassan
Mohammed Hassan Adow
Muse Sudi Yalahow
Osman Jama Ali "Kalun"
18 Others

First Round
Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed................80 (29.30%)
Abdullahi Ahmed Adow................35 (12.82%)
Mohammed Qanyare Afrah...........33 (12.09%)
Abdulrahman Jamma Barre...........18 (06.59%)
Abdulkassim Salat Hassan...........16 (05.86%)
Mohammed Hassan Adow............14 (05.13%)
Muse Sudi Yalahow....................13 (04.76%)
Osman Jama Ali "Kalun"...............10 (03.66%)
18 Others................................54 (19.78%)

Second Round
Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed................147 (54.85%)
Abdullahi Ahmed Adow................ 83 (30.97%)
Mohammed Qanyare Afrah...........38 (14.58%)

Third Round
Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed................189 (70.52%)
Abdullahi Ahmed Adow................79 (29.48%)

Source: http://africanelections.tripod.com/so.html

P.S. eternauta, the way Abdullahi Yusuf was elected was no different then the way Abdulkassim Salat Hassan was elected in 2000, both were chosen by Parliament members.

[eternauta]

Very strange argument. There are kaabo qabiil representatives that might represent the qabiils forumers here are who are pro TFG but how does that succeed as our votes for the TFG?

Keep in mind majority of these kaabo qabiils are there because the people back-home elected them customarily or some of them designated themselves to be the kaabo qabiils without our say-so marka abti, what is your logic here?

It's true, as individuals, that doesn't succeed as our votes for the TFG. However, pro-TFG's argue since kaabo qabiils were customarily elected by the people or designated themselves to be the kaabo qabiils without our say-- they legally represent the will and votes of their people. Therefore, pro-TFG's argue, the TFG is a legitimate government that represents every Somali because it was democratically elected by the people (via the kaabo qabiils). I know it's, as you put it, a strange argument.

[Shilling]

eternauta,

As I mentioned in my other post, the 2004 elections where held fair and square just like the 2000 elections that took place in Djibouti where Abdulkassim Salat Hassan was declared a winner.

That said, for any elections to take place in Somalia there must be law and order which our country lacks still, and since the TFG is a transitional government its whole purpose is to restore some sort of law and order so the Somali people could elected their leaders with out any bullets flying over their heads.

But going with your logic, if as you say this internationally recognized government which AY leads is bogus since it wasn't elected by the people then couldn't the same thing be said about the ICU? Because as I'm aware of the ICU acquired power by creating a militia of 400 committed and well-trained fighters, and by expanding its network and financial support in the business community. Which also later got the needed public support within the Hawiye clans in Mogadishu only after Abdullahi Yusuf was declared the president of the Somali Transitional Federal Government that was created in Kenya at the time. The facts is Yusuf's close association with neighboring Ethiopia, his long-standing past animosity toward certain groups and his lineage identity (the Darood clan-family) all helped to galvanize previously divided Mogadishu constituencies. The Islamists, especially Aweys here, emerged as the principal opposition to Yusuf and the TFG.

This opposition that Aweys leads, by the way, core source of support and top leadership in the movement is heavily concentrated within the Hawiye clan, especially the Haber Gedir Ayr sub-clan. Because as we all witnessed when some the ICU less prominent leaders sought to diversify the movement, they encountered resistance from Haber Gedir Ayr supporters who felt they had shouldered the costs of the Courts' expansion and were entitled to the lion's share of power. This is nothing new, Aways and his cronies were also known to carry a double edge sword in Bosaso under a different group (Al Itahaad it was I'm not sure) when they were in power, it was for this reason that AY pull the plugs on them there when residents there gave him the needed support.

The fact is Somalia is divided at the moment, the TFG sits under Ethiopia and the ICU sits under another Christian country, Eretria. In all honesty neither one of them is fighting for Islam or Somalia for that matter, don't get me wrong their are those that are fight for a good cause but we all know they have no power in this other then taking part in battle. You want the truth? I'm not against Islam the people I'm against are the ones using Islam to further a cause that has already divided us, yesterday it was other name they were using to cut my head off and today when all cards seem to have run out on them they put on the Islamist name. We have government in place, sure it needs fixing, but lets not lie to each other and pull the plug's on it too only to back track and start from square one all over again. You might not like AY or what he stands for just as I don't like Aways and what he stands for, but I don't see the point of crying out fake jihad when those you sympathize with are sitting under anther Christian country only to hijack our capital so they could plot more the then just the demise of the TFG.

[Hyperactive]

The ballots were held in Addis Ababa.

lol is this true?
eternauta war in third world vote wahba laguma badali karo.
wa iska tamthiiliya fel tamthiiliya.
real election yaba no ogol hadan muslim nahay.

[eternauta]

eternauta war in third world vote wahba laguma badali karo.
wa iska tamthiiliya fel tamthiiliya.
real election yaba no ogol hadan muslim nahay.

True.

[eyes-only]

How confused are you people to ask such a question? The public did not vote, the parliament was set up by warlords basically selecting a few poodles from their respective clans. Those warlords were brought together in the first place by Ethiopia to destroy the then TNG and establish a new government led by Yalaxow. Yalaxow was obviously p!ssed off when he was sidelined and went off sulking in Xamar for ages..but that's another story. Basically the TFG parliament was and still is controlled by the main warlords.

When it came to choosing a president, the main players were Qanyare, Yusuf and Caddow (because they had the most money, campaigners and foreign support). Qanyare realised he wasn't going to win and basically ensured Yusuf won by making sure all his supporters voted for him instead of Cadow. He reportedly said, there was no difference to him between Majeerteen and Sacad, they're practically the same and as bad as each other....but at least Yusuf as a warlord is more colourful than the other dude....obviously not in English, but you get the drift. And as it happened many of them agreed, claiming that a big experienced warlord as president was the only remedy to the Somali problem....it didn't take much to convince the donour communities either.

So that was how Yusuf was selected, he bought the votes of the Digil and Mirifle (who were the biggest swing voters), the hawiye gave him the votes due to hating each other more, he always had the vote of his Daarood clan...'others' don't normally count, but I'm sure a bit of money was enough to buy them too.

[eternauta]

How confused are you people to ask such a question? The public did not vote, the parliament was set up by warlords basically selecting a few poodles from their respective clans. Those warlords were brought together in the first place by Ethiopia to destroy the then TNG and establish a new government led by Yalaxow. Yalaxow was obviously p!ssed off when he was sidelined and went off sulking in Xamar for ages..but that's another story. Basically the TFG parliament was and still is controlled by the main warlords.

When it came to choosing a president, the main players were Qanyare, Yusuf and Caddow (because they had the most money, campaigners and foreign support). Qanyare realised he wasn't going to win and basically ensured Yusuf won by making sure all his supporters voted for him instead of Cadow. He reportedly said, there was no difference to him between Majeerteen and Sacad, they're practically the same and as bad as each other....but at least Yusuf as a warlord is more colourful than the other dude....obviously not in English, but you get the drift. And as it happened many of them agreed, claiming that a big experienced warlord as president was the only remedy to the Somali problem....it didn't take much to convince the donour communities either.

So that was how Yusuf was selected, he bought the votes of the Digil and Mirifle (who were the biggest swing voters), the hawiye gave him the votes due to hating each other more, he always had the vote of his Daarood clan...'others' don't normally count, but I'm sure a bit of money was enough to buy them too.

Thanks for the clarification. We now know the TFG is Ethiopia-supported, war criminals, warlords, mercenaries, criminals, thugs and kaaqo qabiils elected temporary government. The public simply didn't elect the TFG.

[*jr]

eternauta,

As I mentioned in my other post, the 2004 elections where held fair and square just like the 2000 elections that took place in Djibouti where Abdulkassim Salat Hassan was declared a winner.

That said, for any elections to take place in Somalia there must be law and order which our country lacks still, and since the TFG is a transitional government its whole purpose is to restore some sort of law and order so the Somali people could elected their leaders with out any bullets flying over their heads.

But going with your logic, if as you say this internationally recognized government which AY leads is bogus since it wasn't elected by the people then couldn't the same thing be said about the ICU? Because as I'm aware of the ICU acquired power by creating a militia of 400 committed and well-trained fighters, and by expanding its network and financial support in the business community. Which also later got the needed public support within the Hawiye clans in Mogadishu only after Abdullahi Yusuf was declared the president of the Somali Transitional Federal Government that was created in Kenya at the time. The facts is Yusuf's close association with neighboring Ethiopia, his long-standing past animosity toward certain groups and his lineage identity (the Darood clan-family) all helped to galvanize previously divided Mogadishu constituencies. The Islamists, especially Aweys here, emerged as the principal opposition to Yusuf and the TFG.

This opposition that Aweys leads, by the way, core source of support and top leadership in the movement is heavily concentrated within the Hawiye clan, especially the Haber Gedir Ayr sub-clan. Because as we all witnessed when some the ICU less prominent leaders sought to diversify the movement, they encountered resistance from Haber Gedir Ayr supporters who felt they had shouldered the costs of the Courts' expansion and were entitled to the lion's share of power. This is nothing new, Aways and his cronies were also known to carry a double edge sword in Bosaso under a different group (Al Itahaad it was I'm not sure) when they were in power, it was for this reason that AY pull the plugs on them there when residents there gave him the needed support.

The fact is Somalia is divided at the moment, the TFG sits under Ethiopia and the ICU sits under another Christian country, Eretria. In all honesty neither one of them is fighting for Islam or Somalia for that matter, don't get me wrong their are those that are fight for a good cause but we all know they have no power in this other then taking part in battle. You want the truth? I'm not against Islam the people I'm against are the ones using Islam to further a cause that has already divided us, yesterday it was other name they were using to cut my head off and today when all cards seem to have run out on them they put on the Islamist name. We have government in place, sure it needs fixing, but lets not lie to each other and pull the plug's on it too only to back track and start from square one all over again. You might not like AY or what he stands for just as I don't like Aways and what he stands for, but I don't see the point of crying out fake jihad when those you sympathize with are sitting under anther Christian country only to hijack our capital so they could plot more the then just the demise of the TFG.

Sxb don't bother pointing out facts. They don't seem to matter with some of these belligerent folks.