When the whip comes down

[dhuusa_deer]

gurey25,

"Dhuusa when that day comes ,
you would also be swept up in the tide.

remeber the nazis didnt differenciate between jews who have converted to christianinty several generations back, they were all filty untermenchen.

same thing with you, athiesm wont save you, even a name change wont."

You're missing the point. My message was intended towards muslims to think about the consequences of their actions. That is simply asking them to considereat, use the gray matter inside their skulls for a change and be responsible. The fact that I may be considered a muslim even though I'm not and rounded up with muslims is beside the point. My arguement is still valid.

[gurey25]

I know.
I was taking a cheap shot.

Funny thing i fully agree with you this time.

[dhuusa_deer]

Pink-Panther

"WE SIMPLY DO NOT CARE"

Islamic poppycock. All monothiests (with the exception of jews) want to convert everyone to their faiths. You just won't leave ppl alone. Mahammed just before he died said 'kick out all non-mulims from Arabia'. That is why there are no jews or christians in Arabia today, although they were the majority of the population before Islam.

Whether it is Evangelical christians or Muslims, you want to force your religion on to everyone.

[LionHeart-112]

^^^U can pay Jizyah when we take over the world inshaAllah. But i will make sure your head gets chopped off, apostate.

[Mochatanya]

I thought you left Somalinet and wanted nothing to do with Islam? We got that point the first time.

Lion- indeed inshaAllah

[Pink-Panther]

Though I promised myself never to reply to you, your stupidity must be addressed. There are no jews in arabia you say?? What about the yemenite jews or those in syria/iraq/kuwait or the jews of north africa?!? Dont speak on matters you know nothing of. May you suffocate on your own vomit

[lionzion]

[quote="gurey25"]I was directly addressing a not so subtle
hint that Islam was forced on the local population, and
that the "trading posts" benefitted economically muslim arabs and who ever was aligned to them.

There you go again, using basing your assumptions on completley
different situations and models.

These Trading posts were not even somali in the first place.
I am assuming by trading posts you mean the ancient coastal cities like Ziela, Moqadishu, brava and Merca.
Some were founded by arab and persian traders before islam and some
are even older like Ziela which is mentioned in the periclyes of the Erythrian sea in the 1st century AD.
What you failed to understand is that those cities were inhabited by
now extinct indigenous groups and other non somalis like the afars in Ziela
as well as the arab, persian and Indian trader populations.
Somalis were nomadic herders and came into the picture later,
taking a dominating position over the other groups.


You also complelty left out the spiritual element of the spread of islam, as well as the cultural.
You are an athiest ofcourse and belive all religion is a load of crap,
but if you want to understand the full picture you have to take it in to account.
Economic reasons alone would not explain it.

What you failed to grasp is how close somalis and the arabs of prophet muhammeds time were culturally even before islam.
Both worshiped a supreme Sky god called Waaq or Allah as well as numerous lesser spirits, both had nearly identical clan family structures.
So you could see why somalis would take islam like fish to water.[/quote]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I NEVER said anything about Islam being "forced". You make your own words to suit your own simplistic assumptions. The word i would use is "deceit" and "hidden agenda".




You probably base all this on the written history from the white and arab point of view. But with a powerful civilization already in Ethiopia at that time, I find it hard to believe that Arabs established trading posts there first. Even before Islam, the tactics used were marrying into the controlling families of the indigenous peoples, purely for economic reasons. Same as in ancient Egypt. Not spritual or religious.

It's also known that "ethiopians" were not only already there, but in modern day Yemen at that time also. So the effect of Indian, Persian, and Arab traders at the time you mentioned were token at best.

Therefore, I find it plausible that with the spread of Islam, came the gradual encroachment of arabs into Yemen, then eventually Somalia. Therefore, a tighter grip on those trading posts ($$$).

I stand by it that the major force behind the spread of that religion into both east and west coasts of Africa were ECONOMICS and material greed!

[dhuusa_deer]

Mochatanya,

"I thought you left Somalinet and wanted nothing to do with Islam? We got that point the first time."

Weren't you exposed as real life body-hugging-outfit-wearing xaliimo instead of domineering-online-jihadist muslimah? I saw through your smoke screans from ur first post. Hypocrite! We know who you are. So stop the acting, you're not fooling anyone.

No! I'm still here. Superman is needed, forever. That is a great idea for a movie. I'll send my script to Hollywood. I must rescue young children from Islamofacists predators. The world doesn't need another robotic Allahu-Akbar-attackers. Bismillah!

I'm out

[Mochatanya]

My post was for the original poster in this topic.

[gurey25]

Interesting theory.
Material greed.

But you made a couple of mistakes, and most of them come from your
admiration of Ethiopia.
Look care fully into the history of Ethiiopia and you will see that axum never went past the tigray
highlands. Infact axumite civilization never penetrated that deep into the cushtic lands.
Muslim emirates in the south like Ifat and Harar were founded by muslim axumite refugees fleeing
persecution and the collapse of axum in the late 700s.
These muslim states were founded by ethiopian muslims not arabs .

Axum was not a naval power and its control of somali coastal towns in the north only happened during its brief colonial expansion between 517 and 570, where it also conquered yemen.
During those 50 years axum had its first and only colonial expansion, where it conquered yemen, destroyed Meroe(the other Christian african state, whos demise is inaccuratley blamed on muslims)
and for the first time attempted to move into the southern cushtic highlands.
That expansion was followed by millitary defeat to Persia, and internal civil wars that led to its collapse.

Another error is that you assume yemen is not arab.
Well yemen is the origin of all the semitic peoples, and arabs are themselves yemenis.

Economics is an important part of the spread of islam but your theory doesnt fly becuase,
the Indian ocean trade before islam was dominated by indian and yemeni traders.

One more thing i find ironic is that your beloved axum was founded by these same yemeni
immigrants in the first place, the nobility and royal family of axum still came from the yemeni tribes of
habasha and ageezat. you would find it interesting to know that the habasha tribe still inhabits the yemeni mountains. the invasion of yemen was really like the USA invading Britian.

[michael_ital]

Lion and Gurey, interesting debate. Keep it coming.

[intellex]

[quote="Kamal35"]Hi, I don't know why, but I have the feeling that you're a good person and a friend. Someone to connect with.



>>>>>>> Kamalito kamalito , i never realized we were friends lollll



As it happened to me when the USA bombed Baghdad the first night, I felt so sad, because USA media was portraying it as a video-game, I knew that real people were dying and suffering and losing their relatives in this kind of fascist destruction. I was ashamed of the behaviour of the Western World: killing innocent people in Iraq while we are millions trying to protect the individual human rights. And when the European Constitution say "human rights", it means "all human rights", whatever if they are Somalis, Afghans, Saudis or Canadians. I belong to this kind of people who think that the hate of today comes from the explotation of yesterday in Africa.

>>>>>>>> Kamal you said you are spanish you what means in europe


White slaves , they use to build with u on the railroads and make u work

hard for the Pure white europeans if you dont know your histroy
learnt it before learn other cultures

I understand, we all understood the angry of Third World against Spain in the terrorist attacks on March-11. This little Hitler wannabe wanted to have his picture with George Bush smoking a cigar together. For his personal record. The 90% of Spanish people, me included, were against this useless, stupid war. We DO hate Saddam Hussein and his style. But you can't fight Hussein killing innocent irakis, bombing schools full of children, killing innocent people.




>>>>>>>>>> then why did your government agreed to send a troops ?




That was the feeling in Spain. Aznar was a new Hitler supporting Bush, and that was our feeling: "If you are supporting this criminal war, just to be a friend of Bush, because you want to have your picture with Bush, just wait for the consecuences of a war".



>>>>>>>>>>>> good point Kamalito Iam glad u know that



So, when the war came into us, and Aznar tried to manipulate and said that it was not because of Iraq, but because of ETA, nobody believed in him. And the more facts were saying "Unjustice in Irak", the more he was crying "It's ETA". He cried so loud that it was ETA that even ETA had to say: "We are not on this. We always say the place we put bombs in order not people to be killed". And Aznar kept on his message: "It's ETA".

And ETA saying: "Sorry, we don't kill people going to work. We kill politicians, policemen, military people. We don't massacre people"




>>>>>>> ETA killed more innocent people then anyone in spain Kamalito

who are you telling this bullsh1t




And Aznar saying: "It's ETA".

That was the real reason, Spaniards said: "Someone is lying, and ETA is not the liar. It's you, Aznar".

Once said this: I'm really sad. WE ALL KNOW THAT THE DEADS IN BAGDAG are useless.


>>>>>>>>>. ok

But this killing is crossing the red line. Muslim people, fanatics, are killing innocent people going to work. Tomorrow, British people, who haven't the experience of us, Spaniards, to distinguish a terrorist from muslims will start to hate all muslims. It's ups to you.



>>>>>>> ouuh and we are so scared about them and u




The so called "muslims" banged peaciful people. In my opinion, is a shame for real Islam.



>>>>>>>>>>> Now you are talking Kamalito this is the real U i knew

it , but let me say this to u Kamalito ITS NOT PROVEN YET THAT ITS
MUSLIMS WHO DIDIT and real muslim dont kill innocent people unless

its a self defence




We were working against Bush. Millions of peoples are opposed tp Bush.

Thanks to London, me included, we changed our minds.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kamalito you change like your mind everyday

like the dutch weather, (rain sun snow in one day ) and no one

cares about your changes Kamalito the truth is that the avarege spanish

looks like arab and you are slave to the white and pure europeans



Islam is not welcomed here. Keep Islam for yourselves. Go back to Saudi Arabia. 14th century.


>>>>>>>> Islam was never welcomed in europe guess what we came

we councored and we will do it again inshallah



The London attacks showed the true colours of Islam.

>>>>>>> the london attack was a payback time biaj you dont go and

attack someone and think you are save




Madrid was a shout.
London has been a execution.



>>>>>>> its just a start

I'm so so so sorry for the real good muslims. I'm really sorry for people as Viking, Gurey, Mowhawk, Amat Allat.



>>>>>>> please dont start kissing arsss


But Islam, today, is not the answer to my world. Sorry if I sound unrespecful.


>>>>>>>> Kamalito you were never intrested in islam as i always

said you come to recruite some lost souls but you will get anyone


London crossed the red line.[/quote]

[Kamal35]

Intellex: Someone who I knew died in London. Not a close friend, but someone who I knew. Your laughing about this, the suffer of his family, Your jokes about this tragedy, simplely, makes you a non-person. A barbarian. That's the whole shit of you. Someone who's joking about the death of someone and the pain of families is not a human being. It's a hienna.

You can come with the old shit that "hundreds of muslims die everyday and nobody says nothing". Same old song.

Who kills muslims except other muslims? With the exception of Baghdad, in which Western Troops (USA, England, Poland, Italy) nobody from the West World is killing muslims. Alright: In the USA the execute people. In Spain, we don't. Who is killing Somalis in Somalia right now? Spaniards, Italians, Americans? Are atheists killing Somalis in Somalia?

No. Muslims are killing muslims. You want to blame us for what you're doing. Western civilization supporting dictatorships, bla, bla, bla. See your own country. All Western countries said bye bye to Somalia in 1993. And what is Somalia now? An example of a democracy? An Islamic State? Islamic democracy? a New State? Say what is Somalia now.

It's a mess. A fuccking mess. Of course, I couldn't go to Somalia, because I'm white. I would be killed in seconds by your warlords and their troops. Of course, I can't even have the right to say: "I'm coming here to help". Of course, you, as muslims, are superior. I don't have the right even to breath in a muslim state. Of course, your brown skin makes you better, higher, superior and stronger than me. And of course, your religion, what you call Islam, gives you the right to kill innocent people going to work at 8.00 in the morning, putting bombs in trains, buses and subways, because you're muslim, Somali and perfect.

Because I have to pay the payment of "hundred of muslims die everyday" and the mass media don't pay attention to it.

Well: let's go to the facts: Here, in my country, nobody stones a girl to death because she slept with someone last night. We don't chop the hand of a 13 years old boy because he was hungry and stole an apple. We don't behead people while saying "Allahu Akbar". We don't kill people in the name of Jesuchrist, Nietzsche or Mozart.

We don't question day after day if music is haram or halal. If going to the beach is haram or halal. If going to the supermarket is haram or halal. If taking a taxi is haram or halal. If talking to strangers is haram or halal. If travelling is haram or halal. If eating a tuna fish is haram or halal.

But you don't question to yourself if blowing a bomb and killing hundreds of innocent victims going to work is haram or halal. You say it's halal. You cheer at it, and say that the "martyrs" who did that, are now enjoying tne 72 virgins in the paradise.

Bin Laden said: "You love life, but we love death"

Ok to that: Start by killing yourself.

You will understand the way Islam was prostituted by the fanatics. People who loves death. If you love death, start with yourself, and leave us alones. I love life, sex, alcohol, girls, the sea, and the sunset. If you like death so much, it's quite easy: buy a gun and kill yourself. 72 virgins are waiting for you in the paradise. Nothing complicated: kill yourself and you'll enjoy the paradise.

But, thanks to people like you, I became an atheist. I like this life. Now. Right now.

You hadn't the right to support the people that killed a friend, not really close, but a friend, who also was an atheist and loved beer, sex, rock and roll and the English way of life.

You don't have this right.

I hate you and I hate all what you mean.

Really, if I could kill you, I'd kill you right now. You didn't have the right to kill these people in London.

Bastard fanatic.

[LionHeart-112]

^^^^ u know for sure that muslims did this? motherfu.cker u said u left..why are u still here?? We lost brothers and sisters everyday in iraq and afghanistan..do u see us blaming christians everywhere?? ass.hole, leave snet.

[Kamal35]

Who is killing muslims but other muslims?

In Saudi Arabia muslims are 00stoning muslim women because they're "bitchs"

In Somalia, they're practising Female Genital Mutilation because if the girls don't to that, they're bitches.

Are Westerners in Somalia after 13 years? Last news were that Somalis are killing Somalis because of their tribes and clans. I didn't heard that Europeans were around.

So, could you explain, where are Westeners, right now, in Africa, trying to exploit Africa?

Please, elaborate