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Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

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Mr. Yungnfresh
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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Mr. Yungnfresh » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:07 pm

at least manslaughter is debatable, killing someone without the intention to kill them

lakiin "suicide bombing" u straight up know ur dying and ur intentionally tryna kill as much people as you can too

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby *Arabman » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:06 pm

[I am talking about ordinary people just like perhaps you & I. Scholars are Scholars, they study the book of Allah in and out, they are the ones who write the Tafsir's and many other publications to keep the Sunnah and the word of Allah alive.]

However, I don't know if you have observed it; I didn't or do not quote a verse in my comments, especially when it refers to or trying to prove issues like martyrdom operations. I didn't or do not quote a verse because someone, a learned sheikh and respected scholar like Qaradawi, already proved the point or made a ruling on the issue.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Dudaaye » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 pm

7 - Ibn Abi Shaybah has narrated in his Musannaf (5/338) that Mu`adh ibn `Afra' asked the Messenger
of Allah, "What makes Allah laugh upon His slave?" The reply: "[The servant] immersing himself into
the enemy without armour." Mu`adh then took off his armour and fought until he was killed.
This hadith is a clear evidence for the virtue of Jihad operations in which it is most likely that one will
die, and it indicates that Jihad has some special rules which permit what may normally be prohibited.
8 - Ibn Abi Shaybah has extracted (5/289) [and similarly Tirmidhi (2491 and 2492, the latter narration
he classified as sahih) and Nasa'i (1597 and 2523), and Ahmad (20,393), as well as Tabarani (in al-Kabir,
with a hasan chain) and Ibn al-Mubarak (in Kitab al-Jihad, 1/84)], "Three [categories of
people] Allah loves,…" and among them is "a man who was in a dispatchment and met the enemy, and
they were defeated, but he faced them with his chest until he was killed or victorious." Al-Hakim also
narrated it, and said it is sahih.
9 - Ahmad narrated in his Musnad (6/22) from Ibn Mas`ud that the Prophet said, "Our Sustainer
marvels at two men: a man who stirs from his bed … to salah … and a man who fights in the path of
Allah, and his companions are defeated, and he realizes what awaits him in defeat and what awaits
him in returning [to combat], but he returns [to combat] until his blood is spilled. Allah says, "Look
at My servant who went back [to combat] hopeful and anxious for what is with Me, until his blood
was spilled."
Ahmad Shakir said,: its chain is sahih. Haythami said in Majma` al-Zawa'id: Ahmad ad Abu Ya`la
narrated it, as did Tabarani in al-Kabir, and its isnad is hasan. Abu Dawud and Al-Hakim narrated it in
abbreviated form, and Al-Hakim authenticated it. Ibn al-Nahhas said: even if there were only this
single authentic hadith, it would suffice us as evidence for the virtue of plunging [into the enemy
ranks].
10 - Muslim has narrated from Abu Hurayrah, "Among the best of lives for people is a man who clasps
the reins of his horse in the path of Allah, rushing on its back; whenever he hears a cry [of battle] or
advancement towards the enemy, he hurries to it, seeking death and being slain with eagerness."
This indicates that seeking to be killed and pursuing martyrdom are legitimate and praiseworthy acts.
11 - Bayhaqi has narrated in Al-Sunan al-Kubra (9/100) with a sahih chain from Mujahid that the
Prophet sent out `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud and Khabbab as one dispatchment, and Dihyah as a
dispatchment on his own.
This indicates that regardless of the level of risk in a Jihad operation, it remains permissible by default,
and the greater the risk, the greater the reward.
12 - Bukhari and Muslim have narrated that Talhah shielded the Prophet from arrows in the Battle of
Uhud, and his hand was crippled thereby.
13 - Bukhari and Muslim have reported that Salamah ibn al-Akwa` was asked, "For what did you
pledge allegiance to the Prophet on the Day of Hudaybiyyah?" He said, "For death."

14- Many have reported from Muhammad ibn Thabit ibn Qays Ibn Shimas, when the Muslims were
disclosed on the Day of Yamamah, Salim, the freed-slave of Abu Hudhayfah, said, "This is not how
we used to act with the Messenger of Allah." Then, he dug a trench for himself, and stood in it carrying
the flag, and fought until he was killed as a martyr on the Day of Yamamah.
This and the next report indicate that steadfastness is desirable, even if it leads to death, and Salim
attributed this type of action to the [days of] the Messenger of Allah.
15 - Ibn Jareer Tabari has narrated in his Tarikh (2/151) that in the Battle of Mu'tah, Ja`far ibn Abi
Talib took the flag and fought until he became immersed in the fighting, whereupon he turned to a
light-colored horse he had and wounded it [so he could not escape], then he fought until he was killed.
Hence, JA`far was the first Muslim to wound his horse [in this manner].
16 - Muslim has narrated that a man heard a Sahabi saying, when the enemy was near, "The
Messenger of Allah said : The doors of Heaven are under the shade of the swords." The man, upon
hearing this, got up and asked for verification of the hadith. When it was confirmed, he turned to his
companions, gave them the greeting of salam, broke and discarded the scabbard of his sword and then
advanced to the enemy with his sword, striking them until he was killed.
[The original study in Arabic contains 40 narrations, but for brevity we have omitted the remainder].
Verdicts of Scholars Concerning one who Attacks the Enemy Alone
Having established the permissibility of plunging into the enemy and attacking alone even when death
is certain, we proceed and say that the martyrdom operations are derived from this principle, realizing
that the prohibition of suicide relates to deficiency or absence of faith. However, the former
generations did not have knowledge of martyrdom operations in their current-day form, for these
evolved with the changes in techniques of warfare, and hence they did not specifically address them.
However, they did address similar issues, such as that of attacking the enemy single-handed and
frightening them with one's own death being certain. They also deduced general principles under
which the martyrdom operations fall, and in doing so they relied on evidences such as those we have
mentioned in the previous section.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:05 pm

"However, sheikh Qaradawi and other sheikhs like him aren't some people; they are respected and highly regarded Islamic scholars."

Arab, are you saying that highly respected Islamic scholars can not be challenged? Do they now have the status that the college of cardinals has in the catholic church???

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby *Arabman » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:25 pm

[Arab, are you saying that highly respected Islamic scholars can not be challenged?]

They can't be challenged by non-Muslims, puppet secular governments and their hired scholars.

[Do they now have the status that the college of cardinals has in the catholic church???]

No.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:40 pm

"They can't be challenged by non-Muslims, puppet secular governments and their hired scholars."

Then how do non-Muslims challenge Islamic rulings that they disagree with? They are human, like the rest of us. We are EQUALS - comprende?

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby *Arabman » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:57 pm

[Then how do non-Muslims challenge Islamic rulings that they disagree with? They are human, like the rest of us. We are EQUALS - comprende?]

For jizya, they are afforded protection.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Jizya sounds strangely like protection money.

Tell me, in your "Jizya" paying society, am I allowed to drink, fornicate, dance salsa?

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby *Arabman » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:15 pm

[Tell me, in your "Jizya" paying society, am I allowed to drink, fornicate, dance salsa?]

You're allowed that in private, with your own kind of people (i.e. Christians, Jews). If you're caught drinking, fornicating or dancing salsa with a Muslim, expect prosecution under Shariica.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:33 pm

After careful consideration of your generous offer, I have made the decision that most of the world has made; frankly, you can stick your jizya right up your a$$. I'll stay in my whisky drinking, pig eating, fornicating society, and you can live in you desert wasteland and be happy doing nothing but going to the focking mosque everyday. You'll be happy, I'll be happy.......

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Gamadid. » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:15 am

[quote="MAD MAC"]After careful consideration of your generous offer, I have made the decision that most of the world has made; frankly, you can stick your jizya right up your a$$. I'll stay in my whisky drinking, pig eating, fornicating society, and you can live in you desert wasteland and be happy doing nothing but going to the focking mosque everyday. You'll be happy, I'll be happy.......[/quote]



Life is routine, eat, have sex, work, do this and that, these are all partial fulfillments while the bigger thurst and purpose of life still remain unfullfilled. All you said you will do in your chosen society addresses the physical need while the spiritual aspect of you is left famished. That is where the whisky and all other sensory-depriving posionous agents come in handy for people like you. A muslim has both needs addressed without resorting to unncessary sensory-deprivation. So, who is happier? Smile

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:01 am

"All you said you will do in your chosen society addresses the physical need while the spiritual aspect of you is left famished. That is where the whisky and all other sensory-depriving posionous agents come in handy for people like you. A muslim has both needs addressed without resorting to unncessary sensory-deprivation. So, who is happier?"

Who is happier, the blind pig wallowing in the mud, or the intellectual who understands the limitations of our comprehension of the universe and accepts them? Perhaps the pig, but it doesn't mean I wish to be one.

Now, if you choose to be a Muslim and live according to Shari'a, that's fine. I'm not going to tell you what to do or how to live. But do the rest of us a favor and don't try and tell us how to live or structure our societies either.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Gamadid. » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:05 am

Mad Mac, Do you accept the limitations upon you and the lack of complete comprehension of your universe? And what does "acceptance" mean here supposing you prefer the intellectual over the pig who wallows in the mud? your thoughts.

Sharia is only part of islam, the legal system to be used and applied when necessary, from family laws to military laws, rights and regulations of all aspects, islam is not confined to the legal aspect of it. You are not left wondering what to do about anything spiritual or otherwise. No need to invent and write legal codes that prove detrimental to society in a couple of years when you end up having too many victims incarcerated, convicted disproportionately to the crime they comitted, or executed because of man made prejudicial laws. From how to cleanse your body before the spiritual soul cleansing(prayer for instance), down to good sexual ettiquettes, islam covers all.


I am not inviting you to join islam, nor am I telling you how to live, accepting faith on your part is purely your choice and Allah's will. I was just here to have a say about your litany of islam misclassifications, ad hominems and the intellectual laziness you pass as cute achievements.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:58 am

"Sharia is only part of islam, the legal system to be used and applied when necessary, from family laws to military laws, rights and regulations of all aspects, islam is not confined to the legal aspect of it. You are not left wondering what to do about anything spiritual or otherwise. No need to invent and write legal codes that prove detrimental to society in a couple of years when you end up having too many victims incarcerated, convicted disproportionately to the crime they comitted, or executed because of man made prejudicial laws. From how to cleanse your body before the spiritual soul cleansing(prayer for instance), down to good sexual ettiquettes, islam covers all."

Just because Islam tells you ALMOST everything in terms of social behavior, and has a partially complete legal code, doesn't mean anything. I can write one in six months were I so inclined. It certainly doesn't mean it comes from God.


"I am not inviting you to join islam, nor am I telling you how to live, accepting faith on your part is purely your choice and Allah's will. I was just here to have a say about your litany of islam misclassifications, ad hominems and the intellectual laziness you pass as cute achievements."

Militant Islamists believe (and have stated) that non-Muslim societies must be physically attacked until they embrace Islam or pay Jizyah. That's what this conflict is really all about.

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Re: Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

Postby Diyeeshaha_Tolka » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:26 am

mad-mac...waryaa kaafir

give me ur adress i'll come visited u with of full explosion car and finish u there

and i m sure i wil not go to hell for killing u. kaafir kaafir dhalay


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