Suicide Bombings In Islam- End of Discussion

[biko]

[quote="MAD MAC"]Biko
So do you think walking into a restaraunt and killing a bunch of people at random is politically or morally justifiable?

Be specific here. Are you saying the tactic is OK, or it's current unconstrained application is OK?[/quote]
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that entirely dependent on whats motivating the guy walking into that restaurant. so if its a palestinian who had everything he loved taken away from him, then by God who am i to question his method ?

palestinian under the brutal Israeli regime reserve the right to resis by any means.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"that entirely dependent on whats motivating the guy walking into that restaurant. so if its a palestinian who had everything he loved taken away from him, then by God who am i to question his method ?

palestinian under the brutal Israeli regime reserve the right to resis by any means."

Any means is a wide open box. So Palestinians who support Hamas, who are killing (by suicide bombing or otherwise) members of their opposition in Fatah is OK? Cause this certainly happens.

What about Palestinians who bomb a market where both Muslims and Jews are shopping......... mothers, kids........... all OK in the name of resistance?

Is there a line at all, or do the Palestinians get a free ride in your moral perception because they are under occupation?

[biko]

[quote="MAD MAC"]

Any means is a wide open box. So Palestinians who support Hamas, who are killing (by suicide bombing or otherwise) members of their opposition in Fatah is OK? Cause this certainly happens.

What about Palestinians who bomb a market where both Muslims and Jews are shopping......... mothers, kids........... all OK in the name of resistance?

Is there a line at all, or do the Palestinians get a free ride in your moral perception because they are under occupation?[/quote]
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nothing that is going on in the world today is ok; other than the interpretation that is attached to any given situation or condition.

and as for palestinians bombing market where there are jews and muslims..well, when you put it like that, no one in their right mind would just say yes its ok . however, considering the history of the rigion and under the conditions Palestinians are force to live, its understandable why the lines are blured and anything become acceptable.


let me put it to you another way...

you got your foot on my neck and expect me to be calm, civil and reasonable; yet cant seem to understand that my behaviour is the direct result from your foot pressing down my neck. so stop focusing on me twitching, screaming and spiting out of pain and lift your damn foot from my neck.

as longs as we put too much emphasis on the effect of any problems/conflict while totaly ignoring the cause nothing will change.


i dont believe in mindless violence and would rather prefer dialogue but not at the expense of another group.

SO, NO DIALOGUE UNTILL YOU LIFT YOUR FOOT FROM MY NECK AND I'LL BE TWITCHING, SPITING AND BITING.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"you got your foot on my neck and expect me to be calm, civil and reasonable; yet cant seem to understand that my behaviour is the direct result from your foot pressing down my neck. so stop focusing on me twitching, screaming and spiting out of pain and lift your damn foot from my neck."

But this scerio leads me to two questions:

a. Why did I put my foot on your neck?

b. If I take my foot off your neck, are you going to behave in a civil manner? Because getting my foot on your neck in the first place took a lot of effort, and I don't want to have to expend that effort again by letting you up if you are going to be a d!ck.

I remain unsympathetic with the Palestinians because they act like animals and because they are politically tone deaf. You want sympathy and help, then garner it. Welcome to life.

But back to the tactic and targets at hand. There is no way that deliberately attacking non-combatants at random can be justified. Kids on a school bus? Come on, not defensible, I don't give a shit what kind of occupation you are under. Just not defensible.

[Mr. Yungnfresh]

why dont u have ur parents shot and killed in front of you, your sister raped and your house levelled to the floor and see how civil you react

but still...suicide bombings can't be justified but i can understand what would cause someone to chose death over a certain kind of life, even though ITS FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"why dont u have ur parents shot and killed in front of you, your sister raped and your house levelled to the floor and see how civil you react

but still...suicide bombings can't be justified but i can understand what would cause someone to chose death over a certain kind of life, even though ITS FORBIDDEN IN ISLAM"

The IDF isn't conducting a whole lot of rape. In general, there would not be any brutality if there were no resistance.

Furthermore, even if all of the things you describe happened to me, I still would not be inclined to just kill people from the offending ethnic group at random. And if I were inclined to do that, it still would be wrong.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Well, you know the guys have been under occupation for a long time, so I guess this is OK:


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A clash between Hamas security forces and members of a large Gaza clan affiliated with the rival Fatah party left four people dead on Wednesday, a Hamas official said.

Two of the dead were Hamas security officers and two were from the Heles clan. More than 20 people were wounded from both sides, said Ihab al-Ghusain, a spokesman for the Hamas security forces.

The violence erupted when clan members opened fire at the security forces, al-Ghusain said. The force later arrested a number of "outlaws" who were on their way to send reinforcements to the clan, he added.

A Fatah official said Hamas security forces were trying to confiscate a car that belonged to a clan member. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the incident.

Local residents said rocket propelled grenades and heavy machine guns were used in the clashes. Ambulances were heard whizzing throughout Gaza city.

Hamas forces closed off the neighborhood of al-Shojaiyah east of Gaza City to arrest wanted members of the clan.

Armed clashes often break out along factional and family lines across the chaotic Gaza Strip.

Hamas and Fatah are bitter rivals whose enmity deepened after the Islamists violently seized control of Gaza from Fatah security forces in June.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Biko
Where did you go in this discussion man?

[biko]

[quote="MAD MAC"]

But this scerio leads me to two questions:

a. Why did I put my foot on your neck?

b. If I take my foot off your neck, are you going to behave in a civil manner? Because getting my foot on your neck in the first place took a lot of effort, and I don't want to have to expend that effort again by letting you up if you are going to be a d!ck.

I remain unsympathetic with the Palestinians because they act like animals and because they are politically tone deaf. You want sympathy and help, then garner it. Welcome to life.

But back to the tactic and targets at hand. There is no way that deliberately attacking non-combatants at random can be justified. Kids on a school bus? Come on, not defensible, I don't give a shit what kind of occupation you are under. Just not defensible.[/quote]
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A...the reason your foot found itself on my neck is because ..1 - my hospitaly and understanding of the horors of the holocaust and sympathising with your plight got unapreciated and trown back on my face...2 - while America and the west had your back from day one, my so called brothers (Arabs) left me on the lurch and turned a blind eye...and 3 - the international community and all the lips service that is paid to international laws and and human rights clearly doesnt aply to you....

B...you are in no position to be making that kind of demand, and just because you have the upper hand doesnt mean all of us are ready to sell our soul to Ntzi-Israel, unlike Fatah.

so either finish me off or take your foot off.


at the end of the day whats quiet clear is that, we dont need sympathy from fascist entity who are following a natzi tactic book to the letter. and what ever happens the strugle will continue and we will not fall for this smoke screen about tactics and methods untill the root cause is tackled.




your whole reasoning is flawed, as you have no problem defending America causing all sorts of problems around the world under the pretext of defending its interest, while totaly denying the right for people who are besieged by vile creatures to defend their livelyhood.

go figure.


Ps.. you can never bring yourself to be straight for once. which makes me wonder why bother with a discusion at all, if your attitude is am Aamerican and am never wrong.?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"A...the reason your foot found itself on my neck is because ..1 - my hospitaly and understanding of the horors of the holocaust and sympathising with your plight got unapreciated and trown back on my face...2 - while America and the west had your back from day one, my so called brothers (Arabs) left me on the lurch and turned a blind eye...and 3 - the international community and all the lips service that is paid to international laws and and human rights clearly doesnt aply to you...."


But wht was my motivation in the first place? Did Israel not accept the partition? Did Palestine not reject it? Who attacked who first here???

"B...you are in no position to be making that kind of demand, and just because you have the upper hand doesnt mean all of us are ready to sell our soul to Ntzi-Israel, unlike Fatah.

so either finish me off or take your foot off."

Actually, given the situation, the Israelis can maintain the status quo indefinately. So I would say it's the Palestinians who are in no position to be making demands. And if they are not careful, they will be finished off. By your own admission, they are the weak.

"at the end of the day whats quiet clear is that, we dont need sympathy from fascist entity who are following a natzi tactic book to the letter. and what ever happens the strugle will continue and we will not fall for this smoke screen about tactics and methods untill the root cause is tackled."

What the fock does this mean? Do you want a peaceful solution or not? Are you willing to accept the state of Israel or not? What are your terms? Hamas is not willing to do that. So, if I have my foot on your neck, and I say "If I let you up, do you agree to stop attacking me?" And you respond "fock no, you are on my land" then I respond, "OK, fock you. I'm keeping my foot on your neck because it makes no sense to take it off." That's where we are today. Why would Israel let up the pressure on Hamas or the Palestinians when they believe that the state of Israel should be destroyed. Regardless of whether or not you sympathize with their position, it makes no sense for the Israelis to take their foot off.

"your whole reasoning is flawed, as you have no problem defending America causing all sorts of problems around the world under the pretext of defending its interest, while totaly denying the right for people who are besieged by vile creatures to defend their livelyhood.

go figure."

I see both sides of the coin. You know full well I did not support the invasion of Iraq. I don't always support American policy. But I understand it. You refuse to do that, and you refuse to condemn political Islam, the real trouble-maker in the world today.

"Ps.. you can never bring yourself to be straight for once. which makes me wonder why bother with a discusion at all, if your attitude is am Aamerican and am never wrong.?"

I am always straight. And as you can see above, my logic is sound.

[biko]

[quote="MAD MAC"]


But wht was my motivation in the first place? Did Israel not accept the partition? Did Palestine not reject it? Who attacked who first here???
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because America twisted the arms of dozens of small nations to get their support for the partitioning of Palestine? Greece and France were threatened with a foreign aid cutoff, Liberia was threatened with a rubber embargo but to mention few of the fascist tactics used in suport of the partiotion.



Actually, given the situation, the Israelis can maintain the status quo indefinately. So I would say it's the Palestinians who are in no position to be making demands. And if they are not careful, they will be finished off. By your own admission, they are the weak.
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there is no denying that the palestinians are weak compare to the demon child [Israel] of the middle east; but that in itself is by no means an admition of defeat nor is it a reason to stop resisting Natzi-Israel.




What the fock does this mean? Do you want a peaceful solution or not? ________________________________________________________________________

peaceful solution from the very same people who refused to recognized hamas after they have been elected on a democratic polical platform?




I see both sides of the coin. You know full well I did not support the invasion of Iraq. I don't always support American policy. But I understand it. You refuse to do that, and you refuse to condemn political Islam, the real trouble-maker in the world today.
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claiming to see both side of the coins and yet suport fascist regime blindly just seemed a bit to hypocritical of you.


but obviously your understanding of sound reasoning, is deny deny deny!

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"Because America twisted the arms of dozens of small nations to get their support for the partitioning of Palestine? Greece and France were threatened with a foreign aid cutoff, Liberia was threatened with a rubber embargo but to mention few of the fascist tactics used in suport of the partiotion."

Again, you ignore the fact that the UN declared a partition and now attack how it was achieved. China and Russia (who's arm the US was hardly in a position to twist) did not veto it. The resolution passed. Now yuo want to go back and question how we got there. When Israel was recognized it was attacked by FIVE Arab states who vowed to destroy it. Now, if you are a Jew, and a population group vows to destroy your new state, and it's 1948, how are you going to react to that???? Put yourself in their shoes man.

"there is no denying that the palestinians are weak compare to the demon child [Israel] of the middle east; but that in itself is by no means an admition of defeat nor is it a reason to stop resisting Natzi-Israel."

But self-interest and he potential for being ethnically cleansed from the West Bank are good reasons to do so. You can be dead right.

"peaceful solution from the very same people who refused to recognized hamas after they have been elected on a democratic polical platform?"

I love this reasoning that left wing nitwits use. It's hillarious. Hamas was democratically elected and therefore anything it does Israel should accept?? That's the rationale being thrown arnound with that statement. Well, Bush was democratically elected, so the Iraqis should just accept whatever he does, right? WTF?? The logic is so flawed its laughable.

Hamas was democratically elected, which just reinforced Jewish paranoia that the Arabs are out to exterminate them. Don't be a focking moron, you're smarter than this.

"claiming to see both side of the coins and yet suport fascist regime blindly just seemed a bit to hypocritical of you."

Israel is not a fascist regime. It is democratically elected. Even Hamas is not a fascists regime. Perhaps Chavez is on the road to fascism, but until Hamas or some Israeli leder suspends the democratic process, they don't qualify. Let' s be concise with our language selection shall we, and not use pejoratives in order to emphasized a flawed logic train.

Again, put yourself in the Israelis shoes. Knwoing what you do about them, their history, what would you do?Figure out what their red lines are, and you can fiure out a solution.


but obviously your understanding of sound reasoning, is deny deny deny!

[sheldibow]

Killing your self like suicide bombing is HARAAM and Diinta Islaamka waa ka soo horjeedaa ... Jihaad is another thing ,,, Jihaad waa la ogol yahay uun markii ay xaq tahay ... Dagaalka Mogadishu ama Iraq is not Jihaad because you are killing your own people ...

[*Arabman]

It's secular Muslims who make martyrdom operations haram; just so to please their Western masters.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Arabman
I think the objection has always been target selection, vice methodology.