How to advise the Muslim Rulers?

[American Salafi]

loooool

You dared me to reply to the verse and I show you the statement of Ibn Abbas. Also if you go to website you can see all the scholars including Ibn Baaz saying that if a rulers believes that the secular laws are better than the shari'ah then he is a kaffir but if he does it for other reasons than it is Kufr dona kufr which the companion Ibn Abbas reported.

[American Salafi]

Koronto

Stop jumping to different issue, we will talk about it one by one. First about the verse. Did I make it clear for you or do you want more proof? I won't let you go that easy.

[Koronto91]

[quote="American Salafi"]loooool

You dared me to reply to the verse and I show you the statement of Ibn Abbas. Also if you go to website you can see all the scholars including Ibn Baaz saying that if a rulers believes that the secular laws are better than the shari'ah then he is a kaffir but if he does it for other reasons than it is Kufr dona kufr which the companion Ibn Abbas reported.[/quote]

You couldn't refute the verse. Instead, all you have is a misquoted hadith that specifically reffers to a Muslim ruler that rules using Shariah. What does Ibn Katheer say in his interpretation of the verse? A leader who rejects Shari'ah and rules using man-made laws is a kaaffir.

[American Salafi]

I swear your pissing me off. Are you retarded? Answer my question. Your talking about Ibn Kathir and I am talking about a companion of the messenger(saw), Ibn Abbas. Respond to what Ibn Abbas said. Period stop jumping around.

Stop the B.S. That is all you say, "stop misquoting, stop misquoting"
That shows you don't have any Islamic Knowledge. STOP CRYING and START RESPONDING

[Koronto91]

Here is Ibn Katheer's interpretation:

That also includes: everyone who believes that it is permissible to rule according to something other than the laws of Allaah with regard to interactions, hudood punishments or other matters, even if he does not believe that that is better than the ruling of shariah, because by doing so he is regarding as permissible something that Allaah has forbidden according to consensus, and everyone who regards as permissible something that Allaah has forbidden and is well known to be forbidden in Islam, such that no Muslim has any excuse for not knowing that it is forbidden, such as adultery, alcohol and riba, and ruling by something other than the shariah of Allaah, is a kaafir according to the consensus of the Muslims.

Source: http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=31 ... t=apostasy

[American Salafi]

looooooooool

Forget Ibn Kathir. I am quoting a great companion of the prophet and your quoting Ibn Kathir. Stop dancing and respond to ibn abbas interpretation of the verse.

[Koronto91]

What did Ibn. Abbas say regarding the verse?

If the one who rules by other than that which Allaah has revealed denies the right of Allaah and His Prophet to rule, as is mentioned in Ibn Abbaas's comment on the aayah: [. . . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.][al-Maa'idah 5:44].

Ibn Abbaas said: [Whoever rejects what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.]

Source: http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=97 ... =governing

[Ican]

Koronto

This is mogadisho today(link below), it seem peaceful enough. The TFG is far from perfect, I think your not being realistic here sxb. You cannot expect them to do all of that while the kwarji are attacking and killing innocent people. If and when the security is restored, then all criticism can be brought forth.
This TFG is transitional government after all, we cannot expect them to work miracles.

http://www.calanka.com/Wararki-Maanta/warka1684

pink bunny

Did you know that Siade barre(aun) brought atheist communist to Somalia until they back stabbed him? A/Y is a warlord and he is the kind of leader Somali's deserve and need, but don't listen to all the propaganda you here.

[Koronto91]

Ican,

The TFG had a golden opportunity; 50,000 Ethiopian troops, U.S. money, international backing and world wide recognition. What did they do with it? They shited on it all. It has been over a year since they took over Mogadishu and the city has gone back 10 yrs to what it was prior to their arrival. According to the UNHCR almost a million people have fled the city, while thousands have been killed or severly wounded. Isbaarooyin, thugery, killings, rapes, civil disorder is rampant. They have failed the people of Somalia.

How can the same monsters who have crippled Somalia for 17 years be expected to revive it? They are all war criminals that belong in the Hague, but the U.S. never wanting to see the progress of Somalia or Islam in Somalia opted for these merceneries.

[American Salafi]

Koronto

This shows your ignorance. When you quoted the verse from surat madi'ah to indicated to the people in the forum that who ever doesn't rule by the shari'ah is a kaffir. The website you posted as evidence goes against you because it states that ruling other than the shari'ah can fall into two things. Which is Kuffar akbar and Kuffar asghar. Ibn Abbas sated that if the ruler believes that the Shari'ah is not the correct rule or believes that any other law is allowed instead then this is Kufr Akbar (takes you out of the religion) meaning he believes this the (ruler) but if the ruler believes in the Shari'ah but doesn' rule by it for other reason than this is kufr asgar, the lesser kufr which doesn't take you out of the religion.

So either you didn't know this or you knew but wanted to confuse to people into believeing you.

[PINK_BUNNY]

Ican, comparing A/Y to Siad is like comparing Abraham Lincoln to George W. Bush, there is no comparison.

[American Salafi]

Koronto you agree with me or not.

[Koronto91]

Jadiidi,

You asked what did Ibn. Abbas say regarding the verse? This is what he said:

If the one who rules by other than that which Allaah has revealed denies the right of Allaah and His Prophet to rule, as is mentioned in Ibn Abbaas's comment on the aayah: [. . And whoever does not judge by what Allaah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon.] [al-Maa'idah 5:44].



What did A/Yusuf do? He rejected Shari'ah which Allah has revealed, what does Ibn. Abbas say about anyone who rejects anything Allah reveals?

Ibn Abbaas said: [Whoever rejects what Allaah has revealed is a kaafir.]

There you have it!

Now, refute it!

[Koronto91]

What does the verse say about akbar kufr?

The above is a summary of the things that may imply that ruling by other than that which Allah has revealed is a form of shirk akbar (major shirk):

(1) Ruling by other than that which Allaah has revealed.

(2) Denying the right of Allaah and His Messenger to rule.

(3) Preferring the rule of falsehood to the rule of Allaah, whether this is complete or only in a few matters.

(4) Regarding the rule of Allaah and the rule of falsehood as equal.

(5) Thinking that it is permissible to rule by something that contradicts what Allaah has revealed, or believing that ruling by what Allaah has revealed is not obligatory or is optional.

(6) Refusing to rule by what Allaah has revealed.

[Ican]

What exactly is the alternative koronto? I think your right a lot of people have been displaced unfortunately and may allah help all the innocent people. But there are places where the TFG operate free and fully: Bay and Bakool, hiiraan, abgal sections of mogadisho, parts of the jubba.

The Ethiopians troops was a mistake, because of the history between us and them. But that point was reached because of the ICU inability to negotiate with the TFG and them flexing their muscles when they should've been building consensus with other people in other regions. I would've supported the ICU if they did and continued their efforts in banadir, but they didn't and now the TFG is the only game in town.


Unless you have an alternative to the TFG, I don't their is a point criticizing them.