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shirib what happen to ur clan man?.........once powerful to unheard of today, did beesha sade gave u guys blanket contaminated with TB, what is the reason for the decline?

Murax wrote:As long as He prays. This is the fiqh of Ahulus Sunnah


Tyrannical rulers in the Muslim world cannot be fought against even if they take Your money and whip Your back

I'll produce the Hadith a little later.

Really..

Murax wrote:

Secondly if AY had control over entire Somalia today We cannot rebel against Him as long as He Prays not if He loves Sharicah law or not.

The warlords pray ..so i guess thats enough reason why we shouldnt ''rebel'' ?? granted he doesnt 'control all of Somalia' but you got to start somewhere right?

praying ALONE and the verbal profession of being a 'Muslim' is not enough.

The Muslim ruler must be a JUST one.

Must be a pious one.

A God conscious one.

A peace loving one.

A patriotic one who has the best interests of his people and his country at heart

Can you define the word rebellion for me please? are you including any kind of opposition..how about opposing injustice and demanding your God given rights? I can honestly understand why people are wary of revolution since they tend to be bloody and I just wish alshabab could compromise and just lay down its arms and sit down with the ICU and TFG but how about a rebellion in the form of what Gandhi did..like mass civil disobedience? I know in Islam thats allowed..please dont tell me you believe it is 'haraam'

Murax wrote:As long as He prays. This is the fiqh of Ahulus Sunnah


Tyrannical rulers in the Muslim world cannot be fought against even if they take Your money and whip Your back

I'll produce the Hadith a little later.

Wow what similarities with the 'turn the other cheek' belief of the Christians...what you wrote right there is NOT an ISLAMIC TEACHING...never was and never will be. Taking my money is called THEFT and whipping my back is called ASSAULT..thats called OPPRESSION it is a crime and a sin in Islam...totally unacceptable. Please brother think before you post such stuff

If an ordinary man in the street did that to me..id fight back..let alone a MUSLIM RULER i.e GOD'S VICEGERANT entrusted BY the MUSLIMS CITIZENS to take care of them and treat them with JUSTICE and FAIRNESS and EQUALITY

that's fiqh ummayata.
and scholars their time
the irony is themselves came to the power by rebelling agains ali
and later on with all their injustice against hashimate and their supporters
they figured away to stop any one rebel on them.
it last very long but didnt last for ever.

Many notable Muslims in Islamic history rebelled against corrupt rulers.

its nothing new. The Prophet's grandson did it (peace and blessings be upon them both)

Enlightened~Sista wrote:

Murax wrote:

Secondly if AY had control over entire Somalia today We cannot rebel against Him as long as He Prays not if He loves Sharicah law or not.

The warlords pray ..so i guess thats enough reason why we shouldnt ''rebel'' ?? granted he doesnt 'control all of Somalia' but you got to start somewhere right?

praying ALONE and the verbal profession of being a 'Muslim' is not enough.

The Muslim ruler must be a JUST one.

Must be a pious one.

A God conscious one.

A peace loving one.

A patriotic one who has the best interests of his people and his country at heart

Can you define the word rebellion for me please? are you including any kind of opposition..how about opposing injustice and demanding your God given rights? I can honestly understand why people are wary of revolution since they tend to be bloody and I just wish alshabab could compromise and just lay down its arms and sit down with the ICU and TFG but how about a rebellion in the form of what Gandhi did..like mass civil disobedience? I know in Islam thats allowed..please dont tell me you believe it is 'haraam'

Murax wrote:As long as He prays. This is the fiqh of Ahulus Sunnah


Tyrannical rulers in the Muslim world cannot be fought against even if they take Your money and whip Your back

I'll produce the Hadith a little later.

Wow what similarities with the 'turn the other cheek' belief of the Christians...what you wrote right there is NOT an ISLAMIC TEACHING...never was and never will be. Taking my money is called THEFT and whipping my back is called ASSAULT..thats called OPPRESSION it is a crime and a sin in Islam...totally unacceptable. Please brother think before you post such stuff

If an ordinary man in the street did that to me..id fight back..let alone a MUSLIM RULER i.e GOD'S VICEGERANT entrusted BY the MUSLIMS CITIZENS to take care of them and treat them with JUSTICE and FAIRNESS and EQUALITY

CO-SIGN

Murax answer this simple question: Is there caliphate in somalia?
We are not allowed to rebel against evil caliphs,as long they pray.

To my understanding,A/Y is not caliph or president,kills muslims,allows kuffars to destroy mosques and he doesnt want somalia becoming a islamic state.

If Caydid AUN succeeded in capturing all of Somalia by force in 1991 We would be forced to obey Him and not be able to rebel against Him, so long as He prays

murax i somewhat agreed with some of your comments. but im not trying to be rude but what is your point?
we should obey a muslim leader even if he's bad?

surrender somalis suport a Muslim or a somali leader when he is bad Like they do with yey

Ilahay caqliga bina adanka wa oogyahay

surrender wrote:we should obey a muslim leader even if he's bad?

Yes thats my point. As long as He has satisfied one of three conditions

He is elected by the people (Shurah)
He is appointed as a successor by a Khalifah
He takes the land by force i.e MSB (Caydid, AY did not satisfy this requirement but if they did We would have to obey them as long as they pray)

they don't rule by sharia

MURAX WHAT IF THEY ARE MUNAFIQIN , ALLAH SAYS IN HIS KURAN MANY TIMES THAT HE WILL PUNISH THE MUNAFIQIN THE HEARTS IF THEY TRY TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THE EHLU AL MUMIN

The_Emperior5 wrote:MURAX WHAT IF THEY ARE MUNAFIQIN , ALLAH SAYS IN HIS KURAN MANY TIMES THAT HE WILL PUNISH THE MUNAFIQIN THE HEARTS IF THEY TRY TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THE EHLU AL MUMIN

Xunjuf,

That is for the culema to decide not the masses. Only Culemaa can make takfir and as for the issue with nifaaq that is something of the heart and You don't know whats in the heart.

Same logic goes to people like Husni Mubarak, King Cabdallah and others. The fitnah of trying to overthrow them will lead to chaos. Iraq and Somalia are examples where a dictator was removed only for the human suffering and catastrophie to skyrocket. Theres wisdom in the sunnah oF Rasululah SAW.


Enlightened,

We already know AY prays. Now if He were to capture the entire Somalia by force We would have to obey him even if He whips our back and takes our wealth.

Murax wrote:

The_Emperior5 wrote:MURAX WHAT IF THEY ARE MUNAFIQIN , ALLAH SAYS IN HIS KURAN MANY TIMES THAT HE WILL PUNISH THE MUNAFIQIN THE HEARTS IF THEY TRY TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THE EHLU AL MUMIN

Xunjuf,

That is for the culema to decide not the masses. Only Culemaa can make takfir and as for the issue with nifaaq that is something of the heart and You don't know whats in the heart.

Same logic goes to people like Husni Mubarak, King Cabdallah and others. The fitnah of trying to overthrow them will lead to chaos. Iraq and Somalia are examples where a dictator was removed only for the human suffering and catastrophie to skyrocket. Theres wisdom in the sunnah oF Rasululah SAW.

But in Iraq and Somalia the dictator's regime was causing fitnah killing people (innocent) ?