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SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

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gurey25
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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby gurey25 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:29 am

Social inequality is sadly a natural condition in human society,
the best that can be done is to limit the inequality so that no one is "poor"
in the sense of not having the basic necessities.
Infact we need inequality becuase there will be people that will produce more and contribute more due to
thier talents and oppurtunities.
This is why Islam gaurentees the rights of the entreprenuer and encourages him,
while restraining the hordeing of wealth and the cyclical boom/busts of our current western economic model.

The root cause of extreme social enequality is interest based econmy and currency.
remove interest, and allow real free trade and you will increase the incomes of everyone including the poor.
The purpose of zakat is to gaurentee the basic rights of the poor, i.e food, clothin and shelter.
Islam does not support the welfare state, in a truely islamic state the poor will find good employment
and cease to be "poor", and just be muslim of lower income, cmpared to others.
and the dive will not be as great as it is today.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby gurey25 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:39 am

Building egalitarian society is political choice countries make. Societies can choose not only whether to be egalitarian or not but to what extent. I recently saw a report published by the UN about the most equal/unequal cities. You wouldn't believe me if I told you Beijing was first or top 5 while New York, New Orleans and London were among least unequal. How come Beijing has less inequality than London or New York?

There's nothing inevitable about social inequality. In Japan, an engineer makes about the same salary as McDonald worker. The implication of this is that you won't find many luxury stores in Japan compared to other countries of similar income. Instead, Japanese buy from their own companies who don't tend to produce luxury goods since there aren't many super rich Japanese. How many Japanese you see in Forbes Billionaire list? Not many. To give another illustration, the CEO of Toyota -- the most successful car maker in the world -- makes under 1 million while his counterpart, the CEO of General Motors -- a company going to the dumps faster than you can say GM -- makes over 8 million.

noangst you are talking about Japan of the 50,and 60s and to a lesser extent the 70's.
By the 80's japan outspent most of western europe and the US in consumption of luxury goods.
even during the lost decade of the 90's recession consumption of luxury goods is very high.

One stroll through the ginza or any part of downtown Tokyo and you will see this extarvagant display and consumption of luxury.
even me from dubai the land of shameless consumerism was impressed by
a simple department store Toie in tokyo.

I believe the reason why the japanese spend allot of thier income on luxury goods is becuase they cannot spend it on cars due to congestion of the cities and heavy taxation and they cannot spend it on huge mansions for the same reason.
So while they will live in a cramped condo, a regular middle class japanese will
spend allot on chanel, givenchy etc and also the latest electronic gadgets,
and the average japanese will spend an absolute fortune entertaining guests outside of the home, in bars resteraunts.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby Padishah » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:13 am

:mrgreen:
it appears that padishah is a burgeoning libertarian, possible even ancap.
I have Libertarian leanings, I admit. I think of myself more of a Classical Liberal.

No, I have not become an anarcho-Capitalist, although their argument is very, very seductive. I am intrigued by the possibility of the idea, and Somalia would be a suitable place to run the experiment. In fact, most anarcho-Capitalists like the idea of moving to Somalia intellectually to establish their 'free society', but haven't actually done it because its full of uncivilised brown people with guns.
The root cause of extreme social enequality is interest based econmy and currency.
remove interest, and allow real free trade and you will increase the incomes of everyone including the poor.
Hallelujah!
nfact we need inequality becuase there will be people that will produce more and contribute more due to thier talents and oppurtunities.
I have to admit, I completely agree.
The purpose of zakat is to gaurentee the basic rights of the poor, i.e food, clothin and shelter.
Islam does not support the welfare state, in a truely islamic state the poor will find good employment
The man speaks TRUTH!

Why aren't they accusing you of being a cold, unfeeling bastard like they accuse me? You seem to be no less Laissez Faire than I am.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby gurey25 » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:41 am

:mrgreen:
it appears that padishah is a burgeoning libertarian, possible even ancap.
I have Libertarian leanings, I admit. I think of myself more of a Classical Liberal.

No, I have not become an anarcho-Capitalist, although their argument is very, very seductive. I am intrigued by the possibility of the idea, and Somalia would be a suitable place to run the experiment. In fact, most anarcho-Capitalists like the idea of moving to Somalia intellectually to establish their 'free society', but haven't actually done it because its full of uncivilised brown people with guns.
The root cause of extreme social enequality is interest based econmy and currency.
remove interest, and allow real free trade and you will increase the incomes of everyone including the poor.
Hallelujah!
nfact we need inequality becuase there will be people that will produce more and contribute more due to thier talents and oppurtunities.
I have to admit, I completely agree.
The purpose of zakat is to gaurentee the basic rights of the poor, i.e food, clothin and shelter.
Islam does not support the welfare state, in a truely islamic state the poor will find good employment
The man speaks TRUTH!

Why aren't they accusing you of being a cold, unfeeling bastard like they accuse me? You seem to be no less Laissez Faire than I am.
"Laissez Faire " do you know that this term was copied directly from
Proudhorn and others like hime e.g "physiocrats"
the classicals liberals like you adam smith and ricardo have changed the meaning to free trade for me , but not for you..

if you agree with me we are very far from classical liberal though becuase we are against interest.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby Padishah » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:59 am

The Free Market does not always insinuate a requirement for interest based banking, but you're right, not so Classical Liberal. A new label is needed.

Neo-Classical Liberals? :D

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby zulaika » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:20 am

China's emerging middle class is no joke.
That has diddly squat to do with Marxism.
so in other words...let's not equate China with "Marxism"?

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby Padishah » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:41 am

so in other words...let's not equate China with "Marxism"?
Are we having a blonde moment?

The reason China is the way it is now is because of the abandonment of Marxism in favour of State Capitalism.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby zulaika » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:45 am

so in other words...let's not equate China with "Marxism"?
Are we having a blonde moment?

The reason China is the way it is now is because of the abandonment of Marxism in favour of State Capitalism.
and do you not feel one should "ask" in order to evolve out of the "denseness"??

thanks for the enlightenment huuno.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby Padishah » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:49 am

My sincere apologies Zulaika. That was uncalled for. You did not deserve such a response. Do not stop asking questions on my insensitive account.

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby zulaika » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:01 am

My sincere apologies Zulaika. That was uncalled for. You did not deserve such a response. Do not stop asking questions on my insensitive account.
its alright...no biggy

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Re: SOCIAL INEQUALITY!!!.....

Postby +chilli » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:01 pm

I actually believe that 'Marxism' or 'Communism' well China's adaptation worked in China and still is today if one looks closer.

Mao was hell of a leader, with a great vision, even the cultural rev. was successful in some ways.
Capitalism and Socialism can work side by side.


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