Hadith vs Quran: In light of what happened in Kismaayo

[Shilling]

Some say we need the hadith to explain the Quran because the Quran is too difficult to understand. Why do people who find it difficult to understand a single volume of Allah's revelation feel it necessary to refer to 50 volumes of hadith books for clarification! Would God reveal a message so difficult to understand, yet expect people to follow it? This does not make sense. Furthermore, God tells us in the Quran many times: "we made the Quran easy to learn, does any of you wish to learn?" (Quran 54:17, 22, 32, 40) Doesn't Allah know what He is talking about? Doesn't He know His creatures abilities?

Allah says, "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment" (Quran 24:2).

I think the message the Al-Shabab group are trying to tell us is clear since they stoned a innocent girl who they accused of adultery, which is that indeed Allah doesn't know what He is talking about...yet some expect such a backward group to establish a just Sharia Law in Somalia.

Wahabis

Al-Shabab

[Kukri]

What took place in Kismaayo has nothing to do with Islam. This fanatics are pimping Islam for their own gain.

All they achieved if anything is to kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended). That been, dad iyo diinta ayey ku talo jiraan iney kala dilan.

And with moree stunts like that and we halfway there...so well done..


Ps..and as for the Quran And hadith...Just like everything in life, one need to crawl, toddle and then walk before they can run.

[Padishah]

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the embodiment of the Qur'an, and whenever people needed clarification of the correct practice, they would refer to him. We do not have the Prophet (PBUH) with us today, but we have the remnants of his Prophetic Example (ie Sunnah) written in the books of Hadith, and in the practice of the Righteous Ijaza-brearing Scholars of our long tradition. To reject the Hadith is to reject a part of the Prophet's (PBUH) example. Simple as that.

[Voltage]

How do people feel knowing what they say and the ignorant things they spew about the diin will surely have a hand in sending them to naar.


Padishah-

This debate was a week ago, with 5 large threads in which this subject was made plain, simple, and clear for anyone to understand. Somebody just wants attention.

[Kukri]

Speaking of which...what do you call your school-girl atention seeking performance

[Shilling]

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the embodiment of the Qur'an, and whenever people needed clarification of the correct practice, they would refer to him. We do not have the Prophet (PBUH) with us today, but we have the remnants of his Prophetic Example (ie Sunnah) written in the books of Hadith, and in the practice of the Righteous Ijaza-brearing Scholars of our long tradition. To reject the Hadith is to reject a part of the Prophet's (PBUH) example. Simple as that.

Padishah,

The religion of Islam today still continues to be one of the misunderstood religions in the world. One reason for this is the fact that for centuries this beautiful religion has been improperly presented to the world through the so-called Muslim people, scholars, and countries that do not act or function in an Islamic manner, according to teachings of the Quran. The result of centuries-long ignorance is obvious. Not only has the religion of Islam been given a bad name, but also Muslims all around the world today are suffering the consequences of abandoning the teachings of the Quran, in favor of innovations that have nothing to do with our religion.

What happened in Kismaayo has nothing do with our religion, so where do such people get such backward ideas? No doubt there are genuine hadiths that don't contradict the Quran but all don't attribute to the prophets saying: hence the Kismaayo incident which contradicts the Quran...indeed, only Allah knows what the truth is.

[Padishah]

You have a lot of gall to senselessly accusing people who've devoted their lives to illuminating the Qur'an and the Shariah of misguiding the Muslim Ummah.

You've no authority to decide whether something has contradicted the Qur'an or not until you have memorised it all, understood it all, and understood the circumstances and context of its revelation over 23 years. Especially key knowledge is that of the abrogated verses, as they're are those who've been abrogated in the text of the Qur'an, but their rulings remain within the body of the Shariah itself, and have done so since the time of the Prophet, just as there are those whose rulings have been abrogated, but the text remains in the Qur'an.

As for the Hadith, you have no authority to decide what Hadith are acceptable or not. There is a whole, rigorous science behind Hadith collection and Narration, where Pious scholars have devoted their entire lives to a systematised vetting process. A few Sola Scriptura malcontent's will not change this.

I suggest you separate al Shabaab and their ignoble example from the Hadith.

[SummerRain]

The audacity of some People. Walle you are swimming in dangerous waters ma ka joogtid.

[Kolombo]

Ismahan,

Some people will go through extreme things to appease the kuffaar.

Check Shilling's statement:

Not only has the religion of Islam been given a bad name, but also Muslims all around the world today are suffering the consequences of abandoning the teachings of the Quran, in favor of innovations that have nothing to do with our religion.

His main concern is what the kuffaar think of Muslims.

[Hyperactive]

[quote="Padishah"]You have a lot of gall to senselessly accusing people who've devoted their lives to illuminating the Qur'an and the Shariah of misguiding the Muslim Ummah.

You've no authority to decide whether something has contradicted the Qur'an or not until you have memorised it all, understood it all, and understood the circumstances and context of its revelation over 23 years. Especially key knowledge is that of the abrogated verses, as they're are those who've been abrogated in the text of the Qur'an, but their rulings remain within the body of the Shariah itself, and have done so since the time of the Prophet, just as there are those whose rulings have been abrogated, but the text remains in the Qur'an.
As for the Hadith, you have no authority to decide what Hadith are acceptable or not. There is a whole, rigorous science behind Hadith collection and Narration, where Pious scholars have devoted their entire lives to a systematised vetting process. A few Sola Scriptura malcontent's will not change this.
I suggest you separate al Shabaab and their ignoble example from the Hadith.[/quote]

spot on.
the problem is some people who read few books about islam or internet articals think few aayat and ahadeth could be understand every thing in shari'a.
you need to go in and out quran and sunna to have better undertandt shari'a as a whole.

our scholars spent all their lives learning before their pass any judgemnet on any issues or fatwa.

i was planing to go shari'a nd qanon. but if some one like shilling comes to argue about islam, what the use for going at leasr 5 -7 years sharia.lol

[Murax]

The Hudud can only be implemented by the Imam (Leader) of the Islamic State. People who control a city cannot dish out huduud.



Shilling,

Waxaadin khabar ku lahayn haa isaga hadlin.

[Shilling]

You have a lot of gall to senselessly accusing people who've devoted their lives to illuminating the Qur'an and the Shariah of misguiding the Muslim Ummah.

You've no authority to decide whether something has contradicted the Qur'an or not until you have memorised it all, understood it all, and understood the circumstances and context of its revelation over 23 years. Especially key knowledge is that of the abrogated verses, as they're are those who've been abrogated in the text of the Qur'an, but their rulings remain within the body of the Shariah itself, and have done so since the time of the Prophet, just as there are those whose rulings have been abrogated, but the text remains in the Qur'an.

As for the Hadith, you have no authority to decide what Hadith are acceptable or not. There is a whole, rigorous science behind Hadith collection and Narration, where Pious scholars have devoted their entire lives to a systematised vetting process. A few Sola Scriptura malcontent's will not change this.

I suggest you separate al Shabaab and their ignoble example from the Hadith.

Padishah,

Your a brother I can agree with and you are 100% correct, so like you said I have no authority to decide whether something has contradicted the Quran or not since I admit I have the least knowledge about both. But you have to understand where I'm coming from...today some Muslims compromise: "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it, and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that these people do not believe Allah's assertions that the Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed.

My point is the Quran mathematical provides mathematical evidence that the Quran shall be our only source of religious teachings. A perfect example:

"Say: (O Muhammad) Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers" (Quran 6: 114).

Surely, there is a reason Allah never supported dividing into different factions. In fact, He discourages this division of His religion [Quran 21:92-93]. 73 sects and still counting, these factions were either born of political differences, or were organized by leaders who decided that their religious interpretations were the most guided. And now in Somalia we have Al-shabaab, Al-Islah, Al-Ithad, etc. Sxb as a follower of this beautiful religion, I think it clear that the Muslim world has appended the Quran for oral saying: Hence again what happened in Kismaayo.

A innocent girl has lost her life in Kismaayo because we Muslims broke from the broader and more general religious practice prescribed in the Quran...how then do you expect such backward people to rule any Muslim country using a just Sharia Law? You can't unless we wake up and it seems that will not happen in our lifetime, may Allah have mercy on our soul since we are living in confused world today.

[+chilli]

Especially key knowledge is that of the abrogated verses, as they're are those who've been abrogated in the text of the Qur'an, but their rulings remain within the body of the Shariah itself, and have done so since the time of the Prophet, just as there are those whose rulings have been abrogated, but the text remains in the Qur'an.

Shilling I think you need to read this and take it Padishah here is indicating you go and read on Nasikh wa Mansookh. The verses n hadith you repeadly discuss fall in this category.

You will find that there is a ijma that stoning was once prescribed in the Qur'an. I think the actually hadith is mutawatir, I'll double check that .(narrated by many)

This whole hadith and Qur'an contradicting is not ground to discuss this issue on. Maybe you should approach it from another angle.

[Aabo- Karl]

It boggles my mind how one can make mockery of the deen just to discarded the opposition.