I dare 2 say Ahmed Gurey was not Somali

[Twisted_Logic]

Man! I missed all the action here.

I'd never start this thread had I known it was so sensitive to some of us. Easy guys - we are talking about events that took place hundreds of years ago. No1 knows the facts and I see NO REASON to lose temper or sleep over something that remote!

Bro Voltage, as a matter of fact you disappointed your fans, including me on this one. your argument is overshadowed by your anger - easy bro - that man u r so fond of has been dead for 100s of years. Who knows maybe he was a converted Jew or christian. no1 knows for sure.

tnx twisted for posting the source of my argument.

The question still remains "was he or was he not somali?" I personally don't think so and that doesn't make me an idiot

Just by looking at how the Somalis are described vis a vis Ahmed Gurey should make it clear that he wasn't Somali. In every-other book I have read, he is listed a leader of a Muslim army against the Ethiopians in which Somali clans gave him a hand. The former regime propped up these unsubstantiated claims without any basis in history and sadly some-people for whatever reason are hell-bent on constructing alternative history to satisfy an orgy that is deeply rooted in contradiction and false-hood. I would have loved Ahmed Gurey to be Somali. The fact is- he was NOT.

[Cawar]

I would have loved Ahmed Gurey to be Somali. The fact is- he was NOT.

Co-sign 100%..

It would have made us all extra proud..and we still are..but facts are facts.

[Warsame101]

Garaad Axmed ibn Hiraabu was both the chief of the Mareexaan as well as the main chief of the Somalis.

The surviving parts of the Arabic sources were translated in to French by Pankhurst at the end of the 19th century. Pankhurst writes on page 29 (see SS):

Les Somalis fatigues de voir leurs troupeux enleves et leur pays devaste se rendirent aupres de l'Imam ayant a leur tete leur chef Harabuwah (Hirabu). Ainsi, tous les Somalis avec leur chef firent la paix avec l'Imam, une paix parfaite et sincere. A la suite de cela, L'Imam, fit des preparatifs pour une guerre sainte (Jihad); il avait en vue l'Abyssinie. Les Somalis avec leur chef Harabuwah etaient maintenant soumis a son autorite(I).

Roughly translated as:

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Jean Doresse writes in 'Histoire sommaire de la Corne orientale de l'Afrique‎' (p. 205):

...9 enfin les Somalis dont le principal chef est Hirabou, à la tête des Merraihan)

... and finally the Somalis whose principal head chief is Hirabu, leader of the Mareeexaan.

[Cawar]

Garaad Axmed ibn Hiraabu was both the chief of the Mareexaan as well as the main chief of the Somalis.

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Isnt this a further proof that Imam Ahmed Gurey was not somali?? I mean it clearly indicates that the somalis went to him led by their chief Hirabu..right??

[guryasame]

Its believed that futuh had two volumes, the volume that is missing had more background information on the people and even lineages. It would have been nice to know the author's definition of somali, for example was it equal to a clan famsamaale. If there existed a large clan family samaale that later which later was adopted for a nation, he would not be samaale, but in todays terms he might very well have been somali. May be some day we will find out who he was?

[Warsame101]

Garaad Axmed ibn Hiraabu was both the chief of the Mareexaan as well as the main chief of the Somalis.

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Isnt this a further proof that Imam Ahmed Gurey was not somali?? I mean it clearly indicates that the somalis went to him led by their chief Hirabu..right??

Not necessarily. Like I have stated before, both the two Imaams, though Somalis, identified themselves as Muslim leaders as opposed to ethnic/clan leaders. Tey would have alienated the other ethnics, If they professed to be ethnic leaders (i.e Somalis). In addition, they lived in a time where European-style ethnic nationalism had yet to emerge. Salahuddin (RH) was of Kurdish descent and yet never accentuate his Kurdishness. This is why you see some Arabs arguing that the Muslim leader was an Arab instead of Kurdish.

Further, to give you a Somali example, if the late Jaalle Siyaad, who was a leader of a nation, held a meeting with various clans, would it have been appropiate for someone in his position to align himself to a certain group?

[new-york24]

after its all said and done the imaam was a great man who ushered in a new era of islamic dominance in east africa.
him being a respected bartire mujaahid only confirms the notion..the sun rises from bari but somali heros are born& bred in GALBEED/.

[Twisted_Logic]

Warsame,

The available literature makes it clear. Hirabu bin Goita Tedros bin Adam was simply the ruler of the Marehan clan. NOT all of the Somali tribes.

''He sent (another messenger) to the tribe of Marraihan whose chieftain was Hirabu bin Goita Tedros bin Adam*, and he also sent (messengers) to the outlying Provinces to spur them on to the jihad, for God, and in the way of the Most High God.

''He also sent (a messenger) to the tribe of Girri which was the tribe whose leader and chieftain was Mattan bin Utman bin Kaled, the Somali, his brother-in-law*

Also, if Hirabu was the ruler of all Somalis, wouldn't his troops be singular instead of belonging to different clans and have different rulers?

''At this moment the companions of the imam screamed out, saying, 'The infidels have tricked us; they are after the livestock,' whereupon the imam split his forces into two divisions: one he entrusted to Garad Ahmusa, composed of the Somali spearmen of the Marraihan, the Gorgorah and the Hawiya; around one-thousand of them from among the most famous spearmen. And from the soldiers bearing shields, the same number.

Here is more ample proof.

''The first tribe to come up was the Habr Maqdi with their lord Garad Dawit, fifty knights and five-hundred foot-soldiers. After them the Marraihan came up, with their lord Ahmed bin Hirabu, with eighty knights and seven-hundred foot-soldiers. After them came up the Gorgorah with Garad Abd their chieftain, and thirty knights and one-thousand foot-soldiers.

[Warsame101]

I have totally lost track of this topic.

Twisted, there is an unwritten rule in the world of history. The closer the source is to the period discussed, the more reliable.

What you are quoting is a poor translated abridged version of Futuh Habashi, published in 2003.

What I quoted is the original book written by Pankhurst 150 years, which in turn contains the lost Arabic documents that cannot be found else where.

First name first of all was Garaad Axmed bin Hiraabu (see underlined text straight from Pankhurst's work):


Secondly, Pankhurst writes:
Les Somalis fatigues de voir leurs troupeux enleves et leur pays devaste se rendirent aupres de l'Imam ayant a leur tete leur chef Harabuwah (Hirabu). Ainsi, tous les Somalis avec leur chef firent la paix avec l'Imam, une paix parfaite et sincere. A la suite de cela, L'Imam, fit des preparatifs pour une guerre sainte (Jihad); il avait en vue l'Abyssinie. Les Somalis avec leur chef Harabuwah etaient maintenant soumis a son autorite(I).



Roughly translated as:

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Finally, the 2003 abridged source that you are quoting says:

After this, the Imam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu

which you conviently left out.

In summary, Somalis had 2 main leaders, Imaam Axmed Gurey and Imaam Nuur ibn Mujaahid. One main chieftain Hiraabu and several mini chieftains such as Garaad Daawuud of the Habar Magaadle and Garaad Mataan of the Gerri Koombe.

[American-Suufi]

if ahmed "gurey" is somali and sade, then nelson mandela, mahatma ghandi and mother theresea were sade somalis.

[oldenglish]

Ahmed Gurey was a decent of Garaad Dhibhin.

[Oxidant]

Who is Richard Pankhurst? When was he alive? I have a hard time finding out more information about him.

So he was able to translate lost versions of Futah Al Hasbai 150 years ago into French as Warsame101. Anyone have more information on this

[Ganjaweed]

James, so what you're saying is that Ahmed ibn ibrahim al ghazi (the real one, not to be confused with Ahmed gurey a somali guy who was a comtemporary of al ghazi )is a descendant of yusuf aw barkhadle, the brother of Sheikh Isaaq ( ) Allah yarxamahu. Therefore, a greeeeeaaaaaaaaaat uncle of the descendants of Sheikh Isaaq A.Y.?

[ahmad guray]

Career diplomat abdi barkhadle ahmad guray descendant from history city of mosques,Ancient City Of Harar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nur_ibn_MujahidLIVE Rigth here city of Portland, Oregon..former ambassador..Lebanon, Jordan and Consulate services in Saudi Arabia for Somali Government 1969 to 1991.

hu tu and somali diid Will Do Everything To Deny our family history and heritage...They will be determined by the individuals who accept or reject the past as a ... that to survive they must deny our identity

[gedo_gurl]

In 200 years time they will claim Sayid Maxammed Cabdulle Xassan was an Arab too, and that some Somali recited poetry on his behalf. Nacalaa idin ku taal.