james d

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

i see you still running that web site full of bs

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Sadly he is.


Salaam

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

i cant believe that are willing to give him details to heir abtiris and all that
that should be a private thing.
watch pretty soon anyone can go and learn any abtiris
and use it. hebel hebel ban ahay hebel hebel ban kasii ahay

[James Dahl]

I stand by my work, and I am open to contributions to fix errors or expand on or add lineages.
Criticism for it's own sake, or of the entire idea of keeping track of lineages, isn't exactly helpful nor will it add my efforts to preserve tradition before it's lost.
You say what I'm doing is bad, but in a few generations ALL of this will be lost, unless efforts are made to preserve it.

[James Dahl]

If it makes you feel any better, I will show you my own ancestry, or at least what I've been able to uncover.
http://www.abtirsi.com/ourfamily.php

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

Do you know what he might be getting paid to get all this stuff together, this might be his job, sent by the _______. You never know!

Horta, someone entered the sub-clans of Abgaal-Warsangeli on Wikipedia What is it their business

Salaam
P.S. James why is it your business?

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

what you dont understand is that there are individuals that
can learn this kind of stuff. so ones abtiris wont be private no more.
good thing you dont have mines down packed.

james if you want to preserve then you wouldnt blast clans abtiris
you should write a book a history book about somali people
and their kingdoms but as for abtiris that should be a private thing.

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

warsan

you should see what he has on his site will make wiki look nothing.

[James Dahl]

I shall answer both of your questions:
Somali history and abtiris are the same, and one cannot research one without the other. Ignorance of abtiris has led to all the ridiculous historical theories we're saddled with today about Somalia.

Somali society is essentially a feudal monarchy, like ancient Europe. The king can't just make decisions on his own because the council of the nobility (the guurti) holds all real power, and the family connections of the monarch and the nobles is very relevant political information. For instance it made no sense at all that the Abgaal could just take over Mogadishu until I discovered that they were actually related to Ajuuraan by marriage. It's these sorts of details that ARE Somali history, but because the lineages are so tightly guarded noone knows Somali history. Noone!
They know PARTS of the history, their own piece, but those pieces all have to be put together if we're going to get anywhere.

[James Dahl]

For instance we have the absurd situation where everyone knows the Ajuuraan ruled a mighty empire, but we know nothing about it.
We know they fought the Portuguese, and that they were related to the Muzaffars of Mogadishu somehow, and that they were originally based in Mareeg before moving to Qalaafo, but we only know that because of what OTHER PEOPLE have written about them.
We don't even know the names of their kings, or at least most people don't I know a few now. We don't know anything of any historical use.

You have all this information, but it's private, so a history of Southern Somalia is an impossibility.

[James Dahl]

The thing that will happen is the same thing that has happened all over the world. Modernity and prosperity and the demise of the feudal system makes all this information irrelevant, but the people who know it still consider it a private and guarded matter. Their grandchildren stop caring though, and aren't interested in learning about it, because it isn't relevant. This history then dies with that generation, and it is lost forever.

This is already happening.

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

let me educate you james

only reason why abgaal came to power was because of sarjeele daughter
not abdalla. those ajuran that ruled qalafe were sarjeele=olol diinle who didnt like
abdalla dayle so there for revolted and they started their own kingdom. abgaal seeing this revolted
because of the weakness of ajurans as a whole. and after abdalla dayles kingdom fell harib established their own kingdom
olol diinle in return favored his brother abdalla dayle over his sis who was married to abgaal ali
and helped yusuf kenadiid take over hobyo and thats how you have a bah gareen in mj's today.

thats history without abtiris.

[CUSHITE KINGDOM]

you will never understand somalis james
even today who kids that are born in western worlds know of their abtiris.
the somali clan mentality will never die well atleast not for a very long time.

[Warsan_Star_Muslimah]

The Abgaal Warsangeli one is wrong So there it goes keeping our history intact.


Salaam

[James Dahl]

Precisely, Faadumo Saarjecele!
But you see, the intricate relationship between Saarjecele and Ali Abgaal is critical to the history, as is later the relationship between Olol Diinle and Yusuf Kenadiid. The abtiris is the most important part of that history you just described. Without it there is no context.