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BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

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guryasame
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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby guryasame » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:23 pm

surroundsound wrote:
I saw a video on youtube in which the al-shabab sissies were performing for cameras and demolishing graves. Forget about them being awliya, I wonder if we can imagine how the relatives of the deceased felt? I know how I would feel if someone took a hammer to the grave of a dead parent for example and that too on international tv. It showed the provocatuer and sensationalist nature of these idiots, willing to do anything to impress their rich arab wahhabi financiers, like the whole shenanigans around the hijacked saudi tanker as if it was the first muslim owned ship the pirates had taken



This is kind of a big lie. They leveled the grave. Here is the Islamic prescendent for their action. Abu al-Hayyaj al-Asadi narrates:
`Ali b. Abi Talib asked me, Shall I not send you to do what the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) sent me to do?—That you leave no figure except that you erase it, nor an elevated grave except that you level it. (Muslim)

Now that is sorted, I will begin imagining. Given that they just leveled a few stones, I reckon I would be alright with it EVEN if it was the grave of my dead parent, EVEN if they had the cheek to do it on international TV instead of a local network and EVEN if it was show their rich arab financiers how handy they are with hammers. In fact I would thank them since they would be doing what the Messenger of Allah (s.a) said to do.


Surroundsound:

I can understand ur a freak of nature like a typical wahhabi groupie, who would tolerate disrespect and desecration of his dead parents by wahhabi sissies for their media shows to impress their rich wahhabi pimps. But ur ignorant misuse of hadith would require that u do the same despicable action at the prophets grave scws and at every known grave of a prophet which are all raised, this I am sure sends a shrill down everyone of 1.5 billion muslims, who I am sure are no longer blind to ur stupidity and demonic logic, and see it for what it is--- a clear sign of misguidance---- and intolerable danger to true religion and humanity in general.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby Cawar » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Gurya, you dont seem to have cohesive thoughts about what you want to express and in the process all your posts sound confusing.

With that said, call the shabab and ppl like them..all you want..one thing you or any of their arch enemies cant accuse them is being sissies.
Those are guys who chose to die for their cause..and anyone who is willing to do that..whether he is on the right camp or not is Brave...thats a universal code..not something you can tamper with.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby Hoowle » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:41 pm

if shababs "chose" to die for the cause, why they still alive? thought provoking question no?

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby Cawar » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:46 pm

Hoowle wrote:if shababs "chose" to die for the cause, why they still alive? thought provoking question no?


Why ?? do you want them to die all in one day?? there are no Nukes in somalia yet you know.. :lol:

Besides its the intent that counts..followed with the action of course...when possible.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby surroundsound » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:39 am

Surroundsound:

I can understand ur a freak of nature like a typical wahhabi groupie, who would tolerate disrespect and desecration of his dead parents by wahhabi sissies for their media shows to impress their rich wahhabi pimps. But ur ignorant misuse of hadith would require that u do the same despicable action at the prophets grave scws and at every known grave of a prophet which are all raised, this I am sure sends a shrill down everyone of 1.5 billion muslims, who I am sure are no longer blind to ur stupidity and demonic logic, and see it for what it is--- a clear sign of misguidance---- and intolerable danger to true religion and humanity in general



Guraysame,

I have a difficult time accepting that you can understand anything let alone my nature. That said, if you want to grapple with these things who am I to stop you? As for graves, I am not sure I misused ignorantly or otherwise anything. I just pasted a hadeeth which I interpret on its most apparent meaning. Your argument against it is based on the consequences of its application. Generally, I don't agree with arguments based on the consequences of actions. An action is either right or wrong in itself not for the consequences it holds. That said, I agree that sometimes things are haraam because of their consequences- Allah tells us not to curse their gods so the kuffar do not curse ours. But with elevated graves I am not sure it would be a problem to knock them down. I'm pretty sure there is something related about an action of Umar Khattab on this exact matter which I will post inshallah if i can find it. So yeah I'm afraid i will have to go out on on a limb here and break ranks with humanity. Pay attention here come the hadeeths part ( i've always wondered if suufis recoil when they see hadeeths in the way dracula hates the light.)


the freed slave of Ghafrah, related that when the Sahaabah gathered to decide on the Prophet's (sal Allah alaihi wasalam) burial, one said;

"Let us bury him in the place where he used to pray." Abu Bakr replied, "May Allah protect us from making him an idol to be worshipped." Others said, "Let us bury him in al-Baqee' [a graveyard in Medinah] where his brothers among the Muhaajireen (companions who emigrated from Makkah) are buried." Abu Bakr replied: "Verily burying the Prophet in alBaqee' is detestable because some people may try to seek refuge in him which is a right belonging only to Allah. So, if we take him out (to the graveyard), we will ruin Allah's right, even if we carefully guard the Messenger's grave." They then asked, "What is your opinion O Abu Bakr?" He replied, "I heard Allah's Messenger say: "Allah has not taken the life of any of his prophets except that were buried where they died'. Some of them said, "By Allah, what you have said is pleasing and convincing." Then they made a line around the Prophet's bed (in Aisha's house) and dug the grave where his bed was. 'Ali, al 'Abbas, Al Fadl, and the Prophet's family took his body and prepared it for burial.


[Collected by Ibn Zanjooyah and quoted by alAlbani in Tahdheer as-Saajid, (Beirut: al-maktab alIslamee, 2nd ed. 1972. pp: 13-4]

It was narrated that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “May Allaah curse the Jews and the Christians, for they have taken the graves of their Prophets as places of worship.” (Saheeh, agreed upon. Al-Bukhaari, al-Janaa’iz, 1330; Muslim, al-Masaajid, 529). It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that Umm Salamah or Umm Habeebah told the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about a church that they had seen in Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and the images that were inside it. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Those are people who, when a righteous slave or a righteous man among them died, they would build a place of worship over his grave and put those images in it. They are the most evil of creation before Allaah.” (Agreed upon; al-Bukhaari, al-Salaah, 434; Muslim, al-Masaajid, 528). Muslim narrated in his Saheeh that Jundub ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Bajali said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘Allaah has taken me as a close friend (khaleel) as He took Ibraaheem as a close friend. If I were to take anyone among my ummah as a close friend, I would have taken Abu Bakr as a close friend. Those who came before you took the graves of their Prophets and righteous people as places of worship. Do not take graves as places of worship, for I forbid you to do that.” (Muslim, al-Janaa’iz, 970).

'No one can use this ( i.e prophet's grave) as evidence that it is permissible to build structures over graves or to take graves as places of worship, or to bury people inside mosques, because of the saheeh ahaadeeth quoted above which forbid that.' http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/21960/grave

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby Cawar » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:46 am

"Allah has not taken the life of any of his prophets except that were buried where they died


Do you have/know historical facts about the burial grounds of the prophets in relation to where they died?? I am curious to know ??

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby guryasame » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:57 am

Surroundsound:

The problem is that every wahhabi idiot sees himself as mujtahid and think they can peddle hadith like a cheap street vendor, u want to put a fatwa stand at every street corner. The graves were built in accordance with the schools or mad-habs led by mujtahids. For example, the shafi'i madhab recommends the graves of anbiya and awliya to be distinguished in such manner.

Its really hopeless reasoning with a wahhabi groupie, what muslim ummah needs is a rehabilation camps for u guys.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby surroundsound » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:05 am

Cawar,

why you gonna visit them? :mrgreen: Send greetings from afar.

Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu) reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "Do not turn my grave into a site of festivities, but send greetings to me for your greetings are raised to me wherever you might be." (Reported by Abu Daw'ud with a sound chain of authorities)

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby surroundsound » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:17 am

Gurey,

I don't think pluralism in Islamic law is a problem. A few posts ago you were talking about democracy- why are you happy with pluralism in politics but not in law? We have a healthy tradition of pluralism in Islamic law. I wouldn't want to do taqlid of the founding fathers of the madhaabs- especially when some of them simply hadn't come across some certain hadeeth. I don't think Salaafis or Wahaabis as you call them see themselves as mujtahids. They see themselves as trying to understand the Quran as it was understood by the Sahaaba. Their argument is sort of similar to the Original Intent argument of constitionalists in the U.S that the consititution should be intepreted in light of how it was understood by the founding fathers. That's the ideal, often the distinction collapses since by default most of them are muqalids of Ibn Hanbal.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby guryasame » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:37 am

Surroundsound:

ok, I get ur argument in this post, but what is pluralism in law to u? Is it supreme court in every street corner and vigilantism? If ur saying the door of ijtihaad should not be closed fine, we may even agree on this, but first u have to distinguish between such an argument and anarchy and vigilante justice.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby surroundsound » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:56 am

Gurey,

Pluralism in law to me means differences in fiqi positions. Because Muslims have unity in God ( Tawhid) I don't think we need 'one' law that we all live under to unite us. We wouldn't need to go to our own supreme court on every corner. We could go to one court and say I want my case to be tried in accordance with Hanafi law or Maaliki for example. The judge wouldn't even have to be from that particular madhaab as long he was competent in the law of that tradition. When giving his ruling doesn't have to believe that this is the most correct opinion, as long as it is sound in accordance with the principles of the Maadhab in question. If the judge wanted he could make his feelings clear in his written judgement about what he thought the TRUE judgement is in his eyes was but this wouldn't need to be binding. Of course if someone asked simply for the judge for a general ruling then he would be free to draw on all of the evidence not just that from one madhaab. That is the rough outline and I think it could work for most cases.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby guryasame » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:06 am

Surround:

I think we are on the right track now, the right qualification, enlightment and tolerance go long way I agree.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby surroundsound » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:24 am

Gurey,

Sure OK. Elevated graves still need to be leveled. This is a question of aqeedah not fiqh.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS: Al-Shabaab declares war on Sheikh Sharif

Postby guryasame » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:30 am

Surroundsound:

Ok mujtahid just don't act on ur fatwas until we have rehabilitation camps ready


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