Somalia, a graveyard of American foreign-policy blunders

[Murax]

A/Wahab,

Sxb are You serious or just joking. Caydid aun would never be able to hold on to those lands long term, now lets close that bad.




Really though the part Where He talked about people unaccustomed to Gov is so true Man. I mean most of Somalis population doesn't know How it feels like to put in a good days work. Extreme laziness, lack of outlets basically leads these youth to become a mooryaan or a Shabab, neither of which will take You far. The Northern States are better but even they don't have much to offer their youth other than to chew qaad all day, and just screw around.

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

No need to hold it longterm just make deals with a now weaker enemy.

the US intervention made compromise less of an incentive for the weaker parties.

Somaliland would have returned to the fold because the SNA would have struck a deal and if that failed made alliances with ProUnionists like Abdirahman Tur.


I would have now been lounging at the Watergate defending the regime.

[Murax]

Murax,

No need to hold it longterm just make deals with a now weaker enemy.

the US intervention made compromise less of an incentive for the weaker parties..

Sxb no clan would negotiate while their lands were being held.

This was proven in Galkacyo, Gedo, Kismaayo, Beledweyn, Baydhabo and other places. None of the civil war jabhads were State actors and all were clan driven groups who had no clue How to build a nation

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

Again, all that was required was a treaty of non hostility among a hodge podge of characters.

Look at this way, in 1992 there were basically 4 big groups: SNA (USC, SPM, SDM & SSNM), SNF,& SNM. A deal would have been made much more easier if the SNA was left alone after breaking the back of the former regime loyalists.

The deal would have paved a way for a power sharing agreement

After American intervention, all the sides became fragmented and weaker.

[FAH1223]

^^ nicca its over,

how you gonna build a country with a society that has a generation that has never lived with a govt is the million dollar question

[Murax]

^^

Sxb the point I'm making was none of those groups cared about a power sharing agreement, Government etc. They were friggin clan jabhads Man, they wern't responsible. Barre aun was toppled by a multidude of jabhads (SPM, USC, SNM, SSDF etc.) and after His fall they turned on each other, cuz none of them had a plan.

[Xashi]

^^

Sxb the point I'm making was none of those groups cared about a power sharing agreement, Government etc. They were friggin clan jabhads Man, they wern't responsible. Barre aun was toppled by a multidude of jabhads (SPM, USC, SNM, SSDF etc.) and after His fall they turned on each other, cuz none of them had a plan.

True. i have relatives who were in those jabhads and they will even tell you that there was no plan

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

There was a plan but the forces of chaos spoiled it.

if the plan had worked out your buddy from the Watergate would be released from prison this year

[Murax]

Murax,

There was a plan but the forces of chaos spoiled it.

if the plan had worked out your buddy from the Watergate would be released from prison this year

Okay Man


Either way discussing Why things happened the way it did doesn't help, the important thing is figuring out how to fix it

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

We just need consolidation of power into an alliance that uses either negotiation where plausible or brute force when needed but does not humiliate the defeated into fighting again.

I say stabilize Banadir and work from there

[Voltage]

Murax miskiin baa tahay. By the end of 1993, Caydiid was already back in Muqdisho after having been defeated in Mudug and Gedo. What Abdiwahab means is if it was not for the Americans and United Nations, the green line armstice would never have been brokered and the Abgaal and their allies (Murusade) would have finished off the weakened Caydiid.

The green light gave time for Caydiid to recover.

[Murax]

Murax miskiin baa tahay. By the end of 1993, Caydiid was already back in Muqdisho after having been defeated in Mudug and Gedo. What Abdiwahab means is if it was not for the Americans and United Nations, the green line armstice would never have been brokered and the Abgaal and their allies (Murusade) would have finished off the weakened Caydiid.

The green light gave time for Caydiid to recover.

Sxb I'm just trying to keep this thread from going from a search for solutions type, into a 8 page fadhi ku dirir session.


Somalis need to learn How to say "Haa haye" every once in awhile

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

Dude, I am still baffled at how different you are from the other local DMV area cat when it comes to Somalia.

Anyway, you slice it the central problem is fragmentation. As the conflict draws on, the parties become more fragmented ending up with numerous subgroups all jockeying for power. Deals must be made before it starts.

[Murax]

A/Wahab,

Right now if the International Community were to take their hands off of Somalia completely and not interfere, You know Shabab would take over the Country right?

[AbdiWahab252]

Murax,

Possibly, then they would be forced to rule and that my friend is where the rubber meets the road.

They would have to modernize, compromise and negotiate into something they are not.

Its easy to be a rebel but harder to be an administrator