Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

The Conquest of Abyssinia

Daily chitchat.

Moderators: Moderators, Junior Moderators

Forum rules
This General Forum is for general discussions from daily chitchat to more serious discussions among Somalinet Forums members. Please do not use it as your Personal Message center (PM). If you want to contact a particular person or a group of people, please use the PM feature. If you want to contact the moderators, pls PM them. If you insist leaving a public message for the mods or other members, it will be deleted.
OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby SomaliAmir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:14 pm

guryasame wrote:The war was forced on the muslims, by portuguese midget highlander heretics alliance. If you really want to understand what Imam Al ghazi was facing read also about the brutal legacy of the portuguese the first wild and brutish tribes to break into the indian ocean


The war was not forced on the Muslims, Imam Ahmed began his first compaign against the Abyssinia in the late 1520s the portuguese didn't even arrive until after the 1540s. this was a regional war between long time bitter enemies: the Local lowland muslims and their last automonous Sultanate and the expansionist Abyssinia. The war became global only after the Portuguese arrive on the east coast of Africa and devastrated the local Muslim city state of the Swahili and the final those on the Somali coast. it said that they attacked and plundered Barawa and Merca and only Mugodisho was able to withstand their onslaught. they land at the port of Massawa 1541 with 400 Mushekeers. with their expertise with fire-arms and Cannons the Portuguese were easily able to defeat the muslims. as a result the Iman send for help he received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans. in a pitched battle, the Iman was able to devastrate the Portuguese number killing Cristóvão da Gama their leader. the Christians were able to regroup at the battle of Wayna Daga their 9000 trooper were against 15,000 soldeirs of the Imam. only by a stroke of luck were they able to become victorious. the Imam was fatally wounded by a portuguese muskeer. the army of the Imam was routed and fled. The defeat of the Imam had long term global ramafication, the Ottomans dependant on the control of trade routes through Gulf of Adan and the Indian Ocean so in 1557 a decade after the Imam defeat they conquored Massawa, Hergigo and Debarwa: the coast region along the northwest horn of Africa. this action was meant to be a check on the ambitions of the Portuguese and other European so the Ottoman could continue to protect their interest in the region. their occupation would last for 300 years.

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby SomaliAmir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:37 pm

Grant wrote:http://www.historum.com/showthread.php?t=6329

There is also a Portuguese account of the same events. From memory, Gurey had about 12,000 troops at the critical battle, of which 2000 were musketeers from Yemen and 800 were artillerymen from Turkey. This particular link says there were 400 Portuguese. What I remember was a total Abyssinian forces of about 5,000. Gurey was killed after a five year running batle in which his forces actually held no land, so the term "conquest" is a misnomer.

After Gurey's death, his nephew fortified Harar and was essentially used by the Ethiopian emperors as a buffer against the Oromo.


that actually not correct, from 1529-until the late 1530s the Imam conquored 3/4 of what is now ethiopia. he chase the Emperor of Ethiopia Lebna Dengal all over this realm and Lebna Dengal eventually died in Exile.by than the Imam had all the central platue as well as the territory of the Amhara. Gondar, Wello and the Tigrie province all fell to him. and he want to make Dembyia,a very fertile region in Begemdar, the capital of his empire. if you had read the body, you would know that much of the peasant population of Amhara and Tigre became land tenent who would work the land for the Imam and the Muslims and the Imam choose Emirs to govern the differnt region of Abyssinia. it was only after the Lebna Dengal and the Portuguese had arrive that things turn badly for the Imam. the time Span is actually only 1 and a half year from when they arrived 1541 to the Imam death at Battle of Wayna Daga 1543.

one more thing you forget that the Emir Nur himself was a great hero, he defeat the New emperor Galawdewos and killed him in 1559. he lead renew compaigns against Abyssinia knowably in Bale and Dewaro for the next 12 years but eventually return to Harar and built the great wall around the city. The city was not just a Buffer, for the Abyssinia had equally as much trouble with the Oromo a people who used uncommon tactic against a empire used to fighting conventional warfare before long. the entire central platue fall to the oromo was well as Wello. before long muslim as well as christain oromo dynasties directly rule the Abyssinia kingdom while the Emperors became little more than figureheads.
Last edited by SomaliAmir on Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexxx
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby Alexxx » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:53 pm

Why is it Somalis can't stop about talking about Mohammed gurey, a jihadist whose nationality is debatable and who ended up being killed without accomplishing his goal?. Ethiopians fought and won battles with far more powerful nations like Italy, Egypt, sudan and raided Somalia several times. At present the Ethiopian military can come and go to Somalia as as it wishes. But you won't see Ethiopians bragging about defeating, occupying , conquering Somalia. Infact majority of Ethiopians don't even support the recent invasion of Somalia. But the way Somalis explain Ethiopia with a context of Ahmed Gurey, they make it sound like Ethiopia as U.S.A and Somalia as Afghanistan.

I guess it's a defence mechanisim to lift up Somalis ego from the predicament they are in by digging up stories from the 1540's, claiming a jihadist whose nationality unconfirmed and whose goal was cut short and killed before attaining them.

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby SomaliAmir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:45 pm

gurey25 wrote:Grant you are over estimating the influence the Abbysinian royal house had after the great war.
The war destroyed both the muslims and the Christian highlanders,it was a mutually assured destruction, and this left the waaqist oromo that were simultanuosly experiencing a population boom and were starting to expand,with little opposition.

The reason that The highlanders are still christian today is becuase of the terrain and the higher population they had compared to the low land muslim sultanates like haddiya and adal.

The Oromos facing no opposition from the weakend combatants expanded thier territory 4 fold,
and assimmilated entire ethnic groups, possible as high as 3/4 of the barentu oromo are actually assimilated haddiye and gurage.. allot of somali clans dissapeared into the oromo nation, some survived but changed like the garre( which were enslaved by the oromo for 200 years) and other barley survived encirclement by the oromos like the Gurgura and Akiisho.

The Highlanders lost land and people to the oromos but they were able to survive becuase they had a greater population to fall back on, while the muslim sultanates collapased totally when facing the oromo expansion..

The war was from 1529 to 1543 when the imam was killed during the battle of weyne dhaga.
thats 14 years..

and the previous 300 years before that was an almost uninterrupted expansion of the highland christians,
Ahmad gurey role in history was to check that expansion and drive home a vengfull retaliation all the way to the tigre mountains..



I agree with almostly everything you have said, however there a few thing i wish to add. Abyssinia was a rocky, hilly country, the Emperors sent governor to distance region where they often acted independent of the Kingdom, heads of their own dynasties especially in Tigre so Abysinia was never a united, all power state. these governor for personal and pettry grudges often wouldn't even engage the imam in combat. while your right that Adal had smaller population when compared to the christian Abysinian. the province of Hadiya was one of the most prosperous community in the Horn. after all it was the southwest which supply the horn with Slaves and Gold mostly from Innaria, Damot and Keffa. it was described in the mid-Fourteenth century by Chihab Al-Umari as "measuring eight days' journey by nine (which Richard Pankhurst estimates was 160 by 180 kilometers), and although small it was fertile with fruit and cereals, rich with horses and its inhabitants used pieces of iron as money. It could raise an army of 40,000 cavalry and at least twice as many foot soldiers". even with the destruction of the 15th century it surrived the holy wars and even incursion by the oromo with a muslim identity until the rise of the Shawan prince Menelik. in the 21th century much of the Hadiya people have converted to christianity mostly Lutharan and other protestant denomiantions.

and the reason why the oromos were so successful was not only because the war devastrated the land, but also there was massive migration and movement during the holy wars. many people along the Shabelle to Awash fled south into what are today Hadiya, Gurage, Kambata and Sidama etc etc. leaving the land depopulated for the oromo to move into.in the eas the only ones left to be a check to the oromo were the Somali. in the west the Ethiopian emperor made the situation even worst. the emperors couldn't pay their general so the General raided and enslaved the population of Gojjam, Gafat, Damot, Ganz and even the Agew many of these people even begged to be convert to christianity if it would protect them from slavers. thousands were sold in Massawa to finance a state that was bankrupt after the holy wars. again having depopulated the west territory, Macha and Tulama oromo from the Boran invade and settle the western most central platue.

another thing that made the oromo stronger was their ability to absorp new member into their clans. these men would than serve to extend the territory of their new adopted nation. the oromo often attack an area make it a safe haven and used it as base to attackt he next area. this same stretegy was used over and over agian. the oromo never attack an enemy head on they only raid and attack soft weak target so often that it worn down the resistance of the defenders. when the emperors fielded their armies they wouldn't be able to find the oromos since they would disperse taking their civilian with them. the abysinia just couldn't adapt to this style of fighting it was only in 18-19 century when they got their hand on modern weapons that the mobility of the oromo become mute. eventually natural boundaries like the Abay, ruthless lowland neighbour and endless fueds amoung themselves destroyed the social cohesion, a unity that had volted them to conquor so much territory.

User avatar
SomaliAmir
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 8:30 am

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby SomaliAmir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:58 pm

.......

User avatar
Grant
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 5845
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby Grant » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Somaliamir,

I lost a lengthy reply to the board. :evil: Will try to reconstruct it later. For now I ran into these quotes that I believe most Somalis will enjoy:

http://operationoverload.wordpress.com/ ... -ethiopia/

Alexxx
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby Alexxx » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:04 pm

Grant, I checked the link you posted and read it. The book clearly indictaes the Imam was a non somali but some Somali clans were used for his jihad against Ethiopia, Just like some somalis and Eritreans askaris were used for colonization of Libya by Italy.

here is the excerpt indicating the jihadist Imam was not a Somali.

"Then Hirabu the chieftain of the Somali tribe of Marraihan, killed one of the equerries of the sultan ‘Umar Din when he was in Nageb. The imam heard about what Hirabu had done, and he said to the Sultan ‘Umar Din, ‘This Somali has acted treacherously towards you and killed your equerry.’ So the imam, and the sultan with him, prepared himself for an expedition and set out and arrived at the country of the Somalis, as far as Kidad. Hirabu. meantime, had fled and was hiding in his own country.The imam asked the sultan, ‘What shall we do now? I am going to send for him to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money. If he does so, then all is well: if he does not, then I shall go against him, while you go back to your country.’ So the imam sent to Hirabu to hand over the horses, and to pay the blood-money to some sharifs of the family of Ba’ Alawi, the Husainites, may God bless us through their means"

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:43 pm

SomaliAmir:


Is that a historical map lol The trade in the region was centered in the somaliland coast, namely berbera and zeila and Adal/Ifat was the political, economicali and spiritual centerl for the horn african muslims, replacing Axum. This is the indisputable answer to the fundemantal questions regarding the region...like I said the illegitimate kids of kacaan and their stupid fantasies know no limit. Here is a real historical map

http://s631.photobucket.com/albums/uu33 ... 155427.jpg
Last edited by guryasame on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:06 pm

SomaliAmir wrote:
guryasame wrote:The war was forced on the muslims, by portuguese midget highlander heretics alliance. If you really want to understand what Imam Al ghazi was facing read also about the brutal legacy of the portuguese the first wild and brutish tribes to break into the indian ocean


The war was not forced on the Muslims, Imam Ahmed began his first compaign against the Abyssinia in the late 1520s the portuguese didn't even arrive until after the 1540s. this was a regional war between long time bitter enemies: the Local lowland muslims and their last automonous Sultanate and the expansionist Abyssinia. The war became global only after the Portuguese arrive on the east coast of Africa and devastrated the local Muslim city state of the Swahili and the final those on the Somali coast. it said that they attacked and plundered Barawa and Merca and only Mugodisho was able to withstand their onslaught. they land at the port of Massawa 1541 with 400 Mushekeers. with their expertise with fire-arms and Cannons the Portuguese were easily able to defeat the muslims. as a result the Iman send for help he received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans. in a pitched battle, the Iman was able to devastrate the Portuguese number killing Cristóvão da Gama their leader. the Christians were able to regroup at the battle of Wayna Daga their 9000 trooper were against 15,000 soldeirs of the Imam. only by a stroke of luck were they able to become victorious. the Imam was fatally wounded by a portuguese muskeer. the army of the Imam was routed and fled. The defeat of the Imam had long term global ramafication, the Ottomans dependant on the control of trade routes through Gulf of Adan and the Indian Ocean so in 1557 a decade after the Imam defeat they conquored Massawa, Hergigo and Debarwa: the coast region along the northwest horn of Africa. this action was meant to be a check on the ambitions of the Portuguese and other European so the Ottoman could continue to protect their interest in the region. their occupation would last for 300 years.



SOmaliAmir:

wonder if ur related to voltage our resident idiot who always seems to believe who can get the pearls by skimming the surface...

The insatiable greed coated in religion fanaticism that drove brutish europe and the papacy into the muslim and world and indian ocean is not as simple as u think. The legend of prestor john is a legend only in that there were no christian kings anymore in the horn of Africa that controlled the trade in the orient, that nation had long accepted Islam...the highland midgets heretics have been illegitametly married to the name of Ethiopia, Axum and Sheba, and even Habasha by western geopolitical strategy...no different really from your stupid ploy to insinuate into Axmed Al-Ghazi and Adal/Ifat with the naked savage tribe like marexaan.


"...No sooner had Bishop Otto reported the existence of Prester John and of the River of Paradise in his realm, then the Pope issued a formal call for the resumption of the Crusades. Two years later, in 1147, Emperor Conrad of Germany, accompanied by other rulers and many nobles, launched the Second Crusade. "As the fortunes of the Crusaders rose and fell, Europe was swept anew by word from Prester John and his promises of aid. According to chroniclers of those days, Prester John sent in 1165 a letter to the Byzantine emperor, to the Holy Roman emperor, and to lesser kings, in which he declared his definite intention to come to the Holy Land with his armies. Again his realm was described in glowing terms, as befits the place where the River of Paradise - indeed, the Gates of Paradise - were situated." Harbay, reigning Zagwe monarch of Ethiopia before his brother Lalibela deposed him, is deduced to have been the mythical Prester John. "Derived from Jano, a reddish-purple toga worn only by royalty, the word [Jan] meant 'king' or 'Majesty'..." - Graham Hancock, The Sign and the Seal

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:16 pm

Grant wrote:
guryasame wrote:grant,

Here is a simple question show me any permanent presence of ottoman in the indian ocean or in india and the orient, the ottoman navy did act in conjunction with other powers in the area but had no foothold in the indian ocean, the red sea ports of aden and jidda and offcourse egypt were the exception. Even the moghul navy admirals were hashemite/cushitic/xabasha from the somaliland coast...No power in the indian ocean existed without the patronage of these cushitic warriors.


Get a grip, GA.

The coastal cities were racially mixed, with lamagodley Somalis being on the short end. There were early sailors from Persia, Iraq, etc., but the majority of the Indian Ocean trade following the period of Portuguese domination, was firmly in Omani/Zanzibari (Arab) hands. When Omani ships were in port, it was said they even exercised control over the Banadir ports.

This trade was associated with the Swahili culture (the three white clans and the five black tribes) and had very little to do with the Cushitic lamogodley Somalis. This continued up until the british arrived and began ending the slave trade after about 1873. The slave trade began moving overland about this time to avoid the British and other European ships, which were in firm control of the Indian Ocean after about 1880.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JtHdYS ... t&resnum=8



lol I had a good laugh, i see from the above ur too disoriented about the history of the region, will wait till u have your head out of ur ass to have a beneficial discourse with you

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:39 pm

gurey25 wrote:Grant you are over estimating the influence the Abbysinian royal house had after the great war.
The war destroyed both the muslims and the Christian highlanders,it was a mutually assured destruction, and this left the waaqist oromo that were simultanuosly experiencing a population boom and were starting to expand,with little opposition.

The reason that The highlanders are still christian today is becuase of the terrain and the higher population they had compared to the low land muslim sultanates like haddiya and adal.

The Oromos facing no opposition from the weakend combatants expanded thier territory 4 fold,
and assimmilated entire ethnic groups, possible as high as 3/4 of the barentu oromo are actually assimilated haddiye and gurage.. allot of somali clans dissapeared into the oromo nation, some survived but changed like the garre( which were enslaved by the oromo for 200 years) and other barley survived encirclement by the oromos like the Gurgura and Akiisho.

The Highlanders lost land and people to the oromos but they were able to survive becuase they had a greater population to fall back on, while the muslim sultanates collapased totally when facing the oromo expansion..



gurey the population on the coast were seafaring since the time immemorial maintaining colonies in far off regions and trading in far off places, often some of them became assimilated into the regions they settled unlike the highland midgets, also a question that must be answered is how much of the highland christians population is indigineous and how much moved in from the nubian christian kingdom that was destroyed in relationship to the crusades. When the arab khalifate in to egypt eventually rather than sincere offer of Islam to the population chose to trap them in a humiliating treaties full off extortions including providing certain number of slaves per year and they seem to have been driven into the arms of the devil by the arabs insencirety about Islam and paid a heavy price for it eventually.

contrast that with the specific decree by Ali cs who prohibited taking enslaving the cushitic christian pples of Northeast Africa, berbers, nubians, xabasha etc., he designated them as a special section of the people of the book who had fallen into amnesia but which they will come out of with the advent of the Mahdi. His heirs the Imams of the ahlul bayt bought the captured cushitic christian women and married them, in fact 5 of the imams after jacfar al-sadiq cs had east african mothers(not all bondswoman, but some of them were muslim immigrants to the area...Jacfar Al-sadiq also encouraged his followers marry from this region because of their unparalleled religiosity.

User avatar
Basra-
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 49034
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:00 pm
Location: Somewhere far, far, far away from you forumers.

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby Basra- » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:55 pm

I like the name abyssinia. Its sooooo cute. :clap:

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:04 pm

Basra- wrote:I like the name abyssinia. Its sooooo cute. :clap:


not so cute when u consider the word-the Abyss lol

User avatar
Voltage
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 29187
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:33 pm
Location: Sheikh Voltage ibn Guleid-Shire al-Garbaharawi, Oil Baron

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby Voltage » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:36 pm

guryasame wrote:the little faqash marexaan illegitimate kacaan children are simply interested in the propraganda that Imam was from their savage naked tribe, wtf was perhaps one of the savage tribes united by the imam to defend themselves from sure extinction simple, The Adal ifaat state was composed of several ethnicities the noble dir somalis, axumites, and arabs immigrant of which the ahlul bayt needs a mention since they were transforming force of what we call Somali nation today


Get an ESL certificate, learn how to write properly, and maybe a a middle school kid will debate you about legitimate, sourced history for once.

guryasame
SomaliNetizen
SomaliNetizen
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: The Conquest of Abyssinia

Postby guryasame » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:43 pm

Voltage wrote:
guryasame wrote:the little faqash marexaan illegitimate kacaan children are simply interested in the propraganda that Imam was from their savage naked tribe, wtf was perhaps one of the savage tribes united by the imam to defend themselves from sure extinction simple, The Adal ifaat state was composed of several ethnicities the noble dir somalis, axumites, and arabs immigrant of which the ahlul bayt needs a mention since they were transforming force of what we call Somali nation today


Get an ESL certificate, learn how to write properly, and maybe a a middle school kid will debate you about legitimate, sourced history for once.


l :lol: :lol: :lol: i need a secretary to proof read my posts on this site wanna apply sissy boi


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General - General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 14 guests