Postby Padishah » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:19 am
Alright, you bunch of uninformed Phillistines.
Number one: if you're in a non-Muslim country, you abide by ALL their Laws and rules, 100%. The scholars have agreed that this is required. If you feel you cannot abide by these laws, then you can exercise your right to leave and never return. There is no need to whine, and scream Kafir this and kafir that while partaking of the benefits of their society.
Two:
[quote="dhuusa_deer"]
But you can't deny the fact that Islam has turned or is partially responsible, for once mighty, rich, powerful and functional societies/countries into the most backward and poorest nations of the today's world. The once mighty Egyptians and Persians are fraction of what they were during the lows of their time of ascension. Why is that there is no single successful, funtioning Islamic country today? Is it all down to coincidence? All the the Islamic nations are poor at the same time in history or is there more to it. I leave these question to muslims. I aint muslim.
[/quote]
Ah, Dhuusa Dheer, our local apostate. You've fallen for this cheap simplistic line yourself, haven't you. Shame really! But then, I didn't expect intelligence and discernment from one of your ilk, and of your mentality.
Those who do the thinking for you, Dhuusa Dheer, forget that during the ascendancy of Islam, the surrounding Empires had become sluggish under the oppressive weight of corruption and beauracracy, as all Empires are wont to do. You mention mighty Egypt like it was a powerful and relevant Empire, at the height of its peak, during the Prophet's (SAW) time. Here is your first stumbling block; independent Egypt as we knew it, died when Cleopatra committed suicide, and Octavian claimed the place as another province and tributary of Rome. Egypt, the country, no longer existed after this. Egypt the province, did. During the time of the Prophet, Egypt was a sattelite state of the Byzantines administered by a Mucaucis. So, why do your thinkers attribute the downfall of Egypt on the Muslims when it fell 400 years before?
The Byzantines themselves were in a period of long decline, and the Emperor at the time of the Prophet Muhammad, Heraclius Basileus, came to the throne after a lenghty power struggle. His reign somewhat arreted the Byzantines bad fortunes. The Byzantine Empires borders were threatened by Chosroes II of Persian, and the Avars north of the Danube, while the power struggle had weakend the army dramatically. Corruption and beauracracy contributed to the tottering Byzantine fortune of the time. Meeting these two threats were also impossible Early in Heraclius' reign, Chosroes II invaded, occupying all of Syria and Palestine, and marching through the Anatolia all the way to Chalcedon, which was across the Bosphorus from Constantinople! Heraclius mamanged to turn his fortunes, and reconquer all the land he lost, and put the Sassanians on the back foot. The defeat of Chosroes II army, and the Byzantines outside Csetiphon, prompted the deposition of Chosroes II, and the start of a series of simpering weaklings crowned Emperor. Corruption increased as a nobles and Zoroastrian priests engorged themselves on the largess of the state in a ten year power struggle, and local satrapies thought themselves Kings in their own right! The army was exhauted, undermanned and underarmed. The treasury was near empty. Persia was all but finished!
So where were these powerful Empires foiled by the prospect of Islam. On one hand, we had a province long since bereft of any power, or standing, or influence in world affairs. On the other, we had a tottering Empire beset with corruption and intrigue, all the while the common people suffered. Where were these great civilisations that were extinguished and ruined by Islam. They did not exist. We had to husks of Empires ready to crumble, is what we had. And you're statement obfuscates these facts.
One also forgets that Iraq under Saddam, pre-Gulf war, was a First World country, BEFORE it was bombed into the ground by the Americans and their allies. And it was a legitimate problem, the Kuwaities drilling sideways into Iraqi oil. Egypt has been under the sway of the west for the last 110 years. Not [b]ONE[/b] thing has been done to improve the country by these Western supported governments! Tell me, why hasn't secularism and pro-Western stance worked? No Muslim has been there to impede any progress that may come from those two sources. Turkey has been MORE secular since than the West since the end of WWII! Why are they not a first world country?
Three: refrain from interpreting any of the Ayahs yourselves without context, nor without a copy of Ibn Kathir handy. Otherwise, kindly STFU, you bunch of ignorant barbarian savages.
