Relevance of Federal System in Somalia

[Xamari_76]

FAH1223 & AR1223 Hmmm...

[NoilPoint]

The Caliphate is actually a federal solution, the way I see it.
Remember the " governors " of Egypt and other ' states ' ( today countries of course )
There could be only one Amir Al Muminin , ( Commander of Believers ) one Caliph.

But the structure was same as in a conventional federal solution.
I could be wrong here, but I doubt the first four Rashidun caliphs were executing everthing on microscropic level, hence need for federal delegation of power.
The platform and constitution was same Sharia
The leader was same and one everywhere.

Thats the two most important aspects to remember.

[Grant]

Is there any correlation between stable areas and areas where heer is still the dominant law?

[GENERAL_SNM]

A federal system is a secular system invented by non-Muslims. It isn't compatible with the teachings of Islam. What's more, there isn't a model African or Muslim country where a federal system has worked even partially.

Lets not jump on each others throat with this secular nonsense sxb, a federal system only insures us one fundamental point and that is abandoning the notion of creating Somalia from top down approach and replacing it from bottom up approach. Puntland could serve as a model state since it has a society that has entirely decentralized its power. Peace and order have been kept by traditional arrangements. There were no hierarchically based police, no army, no schools, no hospitals. All functions usually carried on by the State were de facto privatized. And Islam played an important role from the perspective of organizing the society for your info sxb.

If your trying to sell us that a one qabil state with no democracy or elections and no mechanism of transferring power that can be accountable is a model for the rest of somalia. Can I have what your smoking, cause its helping you escape reality. Puntland only function because its controlled by one qabil, it has no room for anyone else ask the other Hartis. Puntlands system is primitive and to even assume it could be applied to the whole of somalia is ignoring the fact that the system doesn't work in puntland it doesnt accommodate all the other Hartis. Somalia doesn't have the equivalent of the majerteens in somalia, one group that totally dominates all the other group and passes power between its subclans. What you have in somali is groups of equal numbers all vying for the same spot and willing to die for that spot and get to it by any means necessary. So how the Puntland transfer of power would work within these groups would be a minor miracle

[NoilPoint]

^ its actually true ... Puntland ( Majeerteenia) is full of kibir.
its basically the same clan, and they can't even share power with the other two hartis.

Somaliland is more complex due to all Isaaqs and other tribes sharing power democractially.
absolutely EVERYONE is represented in the upper house , parliament , cabinet , parties.

all minorities have their men in higher positions.
I read somewhere Madhibaan/ Gabooye had like 4 vice ministers ..!

what does minorities get in Puntland?
these people are so full of kibir , cisman mohamoud this , omar mohamoud that.
fukin nonsense.

[Cinque Mtume]

If your trying to sell us that a one qabil state with no democracy or elections and no mechanism of transferring power that can be accountable is a model for the rest of somalia. Can I have what your smoking, cause its helping you escape reality. Puntland only function because its controlled by one qabil, it has no room for anyone else ask the other Hartis. Puntlands system is primitive and to even assume it could be applied to the whole of somalia is ignoring the fact that the system doesn't work in puntland it doesnt accommodate all the other Hartis. Somalia doesn't have the equivalent of the majerteens in somalia, one group that totally dominates all the other group and passes power between its subclans. What you have in somali is groups of equal numbers all vying for the same spot and willing to die for that spot and get to it by any means necessary. So how the Puntland transfer of power would work within these groups would be a minor miracle

Puntland is a model to the rest of Somalia, because it is the only area in the country where peace and development has been secured while simultaneously upholding the sovereignty of the now defunct Somali Republic. The only area where Somalis from the south have found a safe haven where they can live and even work in peace. The only political entity that sacrifices all their valuable resources, wether its money or men to the resurrection of a central government for all Somalis.


What you're bitching about is not only grossly exaggerated, they're already being addressed. Puntland is going to have a multi-party democracy. Parties already have been formed. We're taking one step at a time, our main concern is stability. We don't need to prove anything to anybody.

[AbdiWahab252]

Signal,

Okay, I propose the following for the Somali Republic:

1. Galmudug

2. Hiiraanland

3. South Shabelle

4. North Shabelle

5. Banadirland

6. Jubbaland & Gedo

7. Bay & Bakool

8. Puntland

9. Awdal

10. Wuuqoyi Galbeed

11. Wuuqoyi Dhexe

12. Central Coast State (Xarardheere to Warsheik)

[Cinque Mtume]

AW252, we're not interested in what you daydream about.

1. Northeast Somalia (Upper Mudug, Nugaal, Bari, East Sool, East Sanaag, Southeast Togdheer)

2. Northwest Somalia (West Sanaag, East Sool, Togdheer, Woqooyi-Galbeed, Awdal)

3. Central Somalia (Lower Mudug, Galguduud, West Hiiraan)

4. Southeast Somalia (Bay, Bakool, Lower Shabelle, Upper Shabelle, East Hiiraan)

5. Southwest Somalia (Lower Jubba, Upper Jubba, Gedo)

6. Mogadishu (Benadir)

[AbdiWahab252]

Cinque,

Who is "We" ? What makes your list not a daydream ?

[Cumar-Labasuul]

Cinque Mtume
What if those regions you posted were to split up even more e.g if everything is federal why would awdal want to be with Isaaq and what if dhulbahante and warsangeli wanted to be a seperate federal state and what if lower shabelle and middle shabelle wanted to join banadir etc.
If this were to happen then wouldn't every clan would want their own federal state?

[GENERAL_SNM]

Puntland is a model to the rest of Somalia, because it is the only area in the country where peace and development has been secured while simultaneously upholding the sovereignty of the now defunct Somali Republic. The only area where Somalis from the south have found a safe haven where they can live and even work in peace. The only political entity that sacrifices all their valuable resources, wether its money or men to the resurrection of a central government for all Somalis. Quote

Puntland has peace because it houses one sub clan of Darod. Its like me claiming Caynabe has peace and that the whole of somalia should use the system of government from this town and apply to the whole of somalia. The sole reason Puntland has peace is because its populated largely by one clan, within them they have an agreement to pass power around between them. Thats it its democracy, elections or one man one vote has been replaced with the majerteen musical chairs. Somalia is to complicated for the mejerteen musical chairs, but if you feel like your making progress maybe you should let a none majrteen take charge...

Ps, Kismayo has peace with a far more diverse population the majerteeniya should that system of governing be applied to the whole of somalia..


Look here sxb, your state functions because its majerteen only, our functions on a step higher on Isaaq only level. The question is finding a system that works on a somali level only..Maybe what we need is some none somalis to move to somalia and them somalinimo will start to have a meaning..

[AbdiWahab252]

Signal,

Who says the qabiils of Puntland are the majority in Jubbaland ?

My picks are based on the diversity and population of the South. If Harti as your propose become one state, why not HG, Mudulood another, Gugundhabe another, Ogaden another, Raxanwein another etc

[AR1223]

The idea of federalism isn't new; it has been touted years ago. The F in TFG stands for Federal. And like I have stated before, it's a system that has zero chance in Somalia. Why? Because it hasn't never worked in any African or Muslim country.

[Khalid Ali]

Guys guys leave us out of this federal thing you guys are working on , it will be much easier for you guys keep it between raskambooni ila raas caseer. Idinka is leh isku dada isku diin ah isku dhaqan isku Somali ah isku Somalia ah . idinku ba isku sii walaya way idinku sii adkanaysa uun.

[GENERAL_SNM]

Federal state has a different meaning to each qabil....
Majerteen..A legitimate way to keep what they have 'Puntland' and incorporate what they have lost or cant gain back physically, xammer and sool, sanaag..
Somaliland...Lose, of land the occupied territories
Hawiye...lose, because they wont gain anything but giving up some of their powers

So who does it benefit?