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Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

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Can killing innocent civilians in warfare be justified?

No
16
70%
Yes, at least based on "an eye for an eye"
7
30%
I don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 23

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SahanKoonfur
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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SahanKoonfur » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:47 pm

FAH1223 wrote:do you believe you can kill innocent people in war?
Not without a reason. When it applies to a collective "an eye for an eye", then the answer is affirmative. This isn't my personal opinion; it's based on the teachings of Islam. The same principle exists in Christianity and Judaism.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:48 pm

These people are not innocent. They are all harbi's.

Those who aid, assist or incite those who are fighting are, even if they are women and children, legitimate targets. See, for example, as mentioned by Ibn Taymiyyah in Jihad al-Kuffar (The exonarated Sheikh Al-Islam): Al-Qital al-Fasil, and even given in Shaykh Salih ibn al-Fawzan's book al-Mulakhass al-fiqh.

They elected Bush and Blair, re-elected them even, therefore they are our enemies. They financially aid the military, etc. therefore their blood can be spilt.

Allahu Akbar.
Last edited by The Nomad on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:49 pm

"The British people had a choice - but they chose to re-elect Blair and his war-mongering cronies.

Were those who were killed in the London bombings aiding, assisting and inciting those - the kaffir army - who were killing and imprisoning our brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Does voting for a war-mongering government that has been killing and is killing Muslims constitute aiding and assisting those sent to kill in the name of that government and by the authority of that government?

Even if an individual did not so vote, does staying in a land at war with Muslims - whose government has been given a Declaration of War by Muslims - ipso facto denote aiding and assisting those sent to kill in the name of that government and by the authority of that government? That is, does such a staying - and doing nothing practical to oust such a government at war with Muslims (the kuffar thus being content with their status quo) - constitute aiding and assisting?
"

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/160352-post35.html

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SummerRain » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:52 pm

SahanKoonfur wrote:
Ismahan123 wrote:Not necessarily. That would depend on the individual. Do you not believe in the greater reward of practicing patience?
Of course, patience is a virtue, but we are talking here about what Islam (also Christianity & Judaism) sanctions (in specific cases). Islam sactions to attack or retaliate in kind. Killing innocent civilians is maddness and repugnant, but it isn't unjustified. If a Muslim commander exercises patience not to retaliate in kind, I will not condemn him. If the same commander exercises the right to retaliate in kind, I will not condemn him.



There is no sense in retaliation or killing innocent people. ilaahow dhig daade gacaanta ha iigalin.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby FAH1223 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:54 pm

SahanKoonfur wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:do you believe you can kill innocent people in war?
Not without a reason. When it applies to a collective "an eye for an eye", then the answer is affirmative. This isn't my personal opinion; it's based on the teachings of Islam. The same principle exists in Christianity and Judaism.


then why didn't the Prophet SAW and his companions do that when they were fighting the evil Meccans? they didn't destroy Mecca or towns the Meccans were in, they didn't kill women and children

but here you are saying if you are fighting you should do all that and more?!

get the hell out of here

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:01 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
SahanKoonfur wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:do you believe you can kill innocent people in war?
Not without a reason. When it applies to a collective "an eye for an eye", then the answer is affirmative. This isn't my personal opinion; it's based on the teachings of Islam. The same principle exists in Christianity and Judaism.


then why didn't the Prophet SAW and his companions do that when they were fighting the evil Meccans? they didn't destroy Mecca or towns the Meccans were in, they didn't kill women and children

but here you are saying if you are fighting you should do all that and more?!

get the hell out of here


They didn't need to, nor where the kufr at the time killing Muslims indiscriminately, especially children and women.

No, what he's saying (and he's right) is that it's perfectly justified to kill what the Western media and the fools who believe them define as a "innocent civilian". These people are far from innocent.

You sound like a moderate, and that isn't a good thing.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SahanKoonfur » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:03 pm

FAH1223 wrote:then why didn't the Prophet SAW and his companions do that when they were fighting the evil Meccans? they didn't destroy Mecca or towns the Meccans were in, they didn't kill women and children

but here you are saying if you are fighting you should do all that and more?!

get the hell out of here
Because a Muslim commander has the option not to retaliate in kind as well as to retaliate in kind. Islam encourages patience and forgiveness. If you withhold retaliating in kind (which is the favored option), then more power to you. But, if you retaliate in kind, then it isn't illegal or haraam. It's permitted by Islam. A specific ayah allows to attack the enemies how they attack Muslims.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:04 pm

"Indeed.

Those who use the kaaffir term "suicide", in respect of martyrdom operations, are imitating or pleasing the kuffaar, whether or not they themselves realize this.

Same applies to using the kaaffir terms "terrorism" and "innocent" and "civilian"."


http://forums.islamicawakening.com/235120-post21.html

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SahanKoonfur » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:24 pm

Farah massacre

The Farah Massacre occurred on May 4, 2009 in Farah, Afghanistan. According to witnesses, 147 were killed. The deaths occurred in the villages of Gangabad, Gerani, and Koujaha during a sustained bombardment by American aircraft. The majority of the dead were children.

This is the highest number of civilians killed in a single American operation in Afghanistan to date.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said "there were some problems with some tactics, techniques and procedures".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farah_massacre
==================================================================================================================================

After so many denials, claiming all those killed were insurgents, after the UN and Afghanistan's government proved those killed were innocent civilians, the US finally admitted it did kill innocent civilians. Now, what does this prove? It proves the US intentionally kills innocent civilians, lies about it, covers it up, and finally admits it.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:28 pm

^
Sometimes I honestly feel that kufr lives are worth more to these defeatist "Muslims", than the lives of the Ummah.

How many millions of Muslims have been killed by Western intervention? A million? 2 million? 3 million? More?

Yet our community "leaders" are forced to grovel and apologize for the noble acts of the Mujahideen, claiming they don't represent the Muslim populace. Astaghfirullah, there's no greater disrespect. The thoroughbred young men who take it upon themselves to fight the humiliation and oppression of the Ummah and we dare to ostracize them.

Considering how many of our sisters and brothers have been murdered in Khorasan, Filisteen, Iraq, As-Somaal, Chechnya, Pakistan, Philippines, and wherever else noble Mujahideen fight in Allah's way, I can honestly say 9/11 is of no importance to me.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:37 pm

How denigrating that we have the nerve to feel sentimental or even (astaghfirullah) feel REGRET for the death of 3000 kufr in Amrika or 50 kufr in the UK, but we stay silent regarding the killing of millions in the Muslim world.

When the noble Commander Shaykh Usama, our Ameer al-Mumineen Mullah Umar, the honorable Shaykh Abu Zubayr, and all the other Mujahid commanders defeat the crusaders how many of their detractors today will fall over in their haste to get behind them?

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:43 pm

90% of the Ummah, not including the kufr Shia, Deobandis, etc. and of proclaimed "Muslims" today are completely worthless. I'd guess that it's less than 5% who support the re-establishment of our beautiful Khilafah, who support Shaykh Usama in his noble endeavors, who make dua for the Mujahid worldwide, who observe true Tawheed, who do not shy away from our faith in ALL it's aspects including Jihad.

Disheartening.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SahanGalbeed » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Just don't reply to this bitch , okay !

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby The Nomad » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:52 pm

SahanGalbeed wrote:Just don't reply to this bitch , okay !


"Bitch" ?

Kufr speech. We've established a long time ago you have no argument to make regarding anything, due to your pitiful intellect. Get back to naac-naac and useless talk, it's what your good for.

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Re: Killing Innocent Civilians in Warfare

Postby SahanKoonfur » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:00 pm

SahanGalbeed wrote:Just don't reply to this bitch , okay !
You broke one of the rules of Somalinet; not to engage in personal attacks. I guess the rules don't apply to you.


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