Haram to live in the West?

[Crazy Cat Lady]

I found this hadith today which basically said it is haram to live in cari gaalo. I just cant get my head around it, doesn't it sound a bit strange and slightly unfair?
“I disavow myself of every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood

[Captain24]

It's probably a weak Hadith. Weak hadith means nobody knows if the Prophet(SCW) actually said that. You should stop trying to pick faults in the Qur'an and Hadiths

[Crazy Cat Lady]

It's probably a weak Hadith. Weak hadith means nobody knows if the Prophet(SCW) actually said that. You should stop trying to pick faults in the Qur'an and Hadiths

I wasn't picking fault, I was just shocked and confused

[BaasAbuur]

I found this hadith today which basically said it is haram to live in cari gaalo. I just cant get my head around it, doesn't it sound a bit strange and slightly unfair?
“I disavow myself of every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood

Where did you find it? Source please.

[BODHI]

It's probably a weak Hadith. Weak hadith means nobody knows if the Prophet(SCW) actually said that. You should stop trying to pick faults in the Qur'an and Hadiths

I wasn't picking fault, I was just shocked and confused

WELL MOVE BACK TO SOMALIA THEN

[Crazy Cat Lady]

Here's the source, scroll down to 'fourthly'
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/84052

[abdalla11]

^^ it is saxiix

I found this hadith today which basically said it is haram to live in cari gaalo. I just cant get my head around it, doesn't it sound a bit strange and slightly unfair?
“I disavow myself of every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood

It is xaraam to live amongst kuffaar, that is why we should rebuild our nation and move.

Surah annisaa/chapter 4:

97. Verily! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): "In what (condition) were you?" They reply: "We were weak and oppressed on earth." They (angels) say: "Was not the earth of Allâh spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - What an evil destination![]

98. Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way.

99. For these there is hope that Allâh will forgive them, and Allâh is Ever Oft Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

100. He who emigrates (from his home) in the Cause of Allâh, will find on earth many dwelling places and plenty to live by. And whosoever leaves his home as an emigrant unto Allâh and His Messenger, and death overtakes him, his reward is then surely incumbent upon Allâh. And Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[Crazy Cat Lady]

But I love England!

[BaasAbuur]

Maybe a civil war in Somalia falls under "other essential mtters". I don't know about Somalilanders and Puntlanders though, they are definitely living in Haram.

It is not permissible to live in the lands of shirk and kufr except in cases where there is a shar’i reason allowing one to stay there, such as medical treatment, business, da’wah and other essential matters. As for living in their countries and settling among them, that is not permissible because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disavow myself of every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood (2645) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

[abdalla11]

Maybe a civil war in Somalia falls under "other essential mtters". I don't know about Somalilanders and Puntlanders though, they are definitely living in Haram.

[Enlightened~Sista]

It is a false hadeeth, one just needs to apply their common sense.


Example China is not a Muslim country, there's a lot of polytheism/atheism yet there are 20-25 million Indigenous Muslims. If it's haraam which Muslim country would absorb these large numbers? What about the millions of Indian Muslims in polytheistic India? What about those African Muslims in Animist/Christian majority countries? etc etc etc There are a lot of fabricated ahadeeth floating around, one must be cautious.

[Caliman]

It is a false hadeeth, one just needs to apply their common sense.


Example China is not a Muslim country, there's a lot of polytheism/atheism yet there are 20-25 million Indigenous Muslims. If it haraam which Muslim country would absorb these large numbers? What about the millions of Indian Muslims in polytheistic India? What about those African Muslims in Animist/Christian majority countries? etc etc etc There are a lot of fabricated ahadeeth floating around, one must be cautious.

I couldn't have said it better. Bravo!

[Highland]

ES, you use common sense unlike the Wahabi extremist.

Keep it up.

[Enlightened~Sista]

It's really a sad state of affairs that our religious leaders don't think anymore and continue to peddle these ahadeeth to the Muslim masses.

[FAH1223]

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=213023&p=2462130&hilit=live&sid=8503d2b3d02aae4e6abf35e34df16c53#p2462130

Scholarly consensus regarding living in non-Muslim lands goes like this:

In al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (20/206) it says:

Dar al-harb refers to every place in which the rule of kufr prevails. One of the rulings that have to do with dar al-harb is hijrah (migration). With regard to migration from dar al-harb, the fuqaha’ divided people into three categories:

(1) Those who are obliged to migrate: they are those who are able to migrate and who cannot practise their religion openly in dar al-harb. It is obligatory upon a female even if she does not have a mahram, if she thinks she will be safe when travelling, or if the risk of travelling is less than the risk of staying in dar al-harb…

(2) Those who are not obliged to migrate: they are those who are unable to do so, either because of sickness or because they are forced to stay in the kaafir land, or those who are weak, such as woman and children, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way”

[al-Nisa’ 4:98]

(3) Those for whom migration is mustahabb but not obligatory: they include those who are able to migrate but are also able to practise their religion openly in dar al-harb. It is mustahabb for such a person to migrate so that he can participate in jihad and increase the numbers of the Muslims.


Judging by this, most of us fall under the 3rd category, because eventhough we live in non-Muslim lands, we are still able to practice the religion freely, without any persecution. However, if it ever becomes an issue where going to the Masjid is dissallowed or even wearing the Hijaab becomes illegal, and other aspects of the religion become impossible to practice. Then migration to a Muslim land or even a less hostile kuffaar land (like the Muslims migrating to Abyssinia during the Prophet's time saw) becomes obligatory.

Otherwise, it becomes mustahabb which essentially means something which is recommended, but if neglected, then the Muslim will not be punished for it. Some mustahabbs can be waajib (obligatory), others are mub'ah (neutral), etc. It all depends. But if it were up to me, I would not permanently plan on living and dying in a non-Muslim land, I would plan on returning to a Muslim country to be on the safe side.