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Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby FAH1223 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:16 pm

These kids really entertain me. It's like some old American right now talking about why Vietnam should not have happened. Clealy Vietnam should not have happened but it wasn't a single event attributable to Nixon or any one American president. It was a long process that that affected three American presidents and Administrations.

In the same way it was not for Siad to go for or not to go for the Ogaden War. From the time of colonialism, to liberation, to our flag...irredentist pan-Somalism was the wish of the Somali people. Siad was only a facilitator not the originator of the Ogaden, it wasn't not his choice to go in or out. He was simple facilitating when and when not to go in and a better opportunity could not have come then the overthrow of Haile Salassie when the Ethiopian state was engulfed into anarchy. Was he to know the whole soviet world would come and defend Ethiopia surprising even the Americans?

Really, these kids should do less talking and more learning.
Even with all of that sentiment and Ethiopia having upheaval, you're still a country only 18 years removed from independence with an already volatile environment. At the end of the day the war bankrupt the country and had Somalia into the structural adjustment mumbo jumbo of the IMF with all of the debt incurred.

the Ogaden War was just the beginning of Siad Barre's downfall (the country advanced in the first 8-9 years leading till the war). General SNM has a point, the country was very young and war just messes everything up and to this day that war turned Somalia into a military land awashed with guns (the first rebel groups sprawling up shortly thereafter).

That war crippled Somalia and laid the foundations for the worse things to come in the following decade.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby Voltage » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:33 am

I don't disagree Fah. The Ogaden War was a national tragedy and we would be better off if it never happened. However to question why Siad Barre waged it is to not understand the process that led to it starting from Colonialism, to liberation movement, to even the insignia of Somalia adopted before 1960 such as the Blue star on the flag, to independence and beyond. Somalia was not built as a separate republic that should watch itself, even before Independence Somalia was feted as only a piece of the complete pie and independence for all was the number one issue of the day. Pan-Somalis was the number one issue in Somalia from colonialism to 1977. Don't blame it on Siad, if there was fault it was for all of us. It is like the clueless coffee shop talker asking why did Nixon wage Vietnam when it was bad for the country. Well of course it was bad for America and we all know it today but to question why Nixon waged Vietnam is to not understand the history and process that led to it. It was greater then Nixon, in the same way irredentist pan-Somalism was greater then Siad. He wasn't the cause of the Ogaden War...this was planned when we made the star in our flag, he was only the facilitator. We did not even have diplomatic relations with Britain from 1961 to 1968 after it failed to honor the referendum in NFD and gave it to independent Kenya. We also went to war with Ethiopia in 1964 but they creamed us because we had no patron and they had USA. This is was the beginning of the Soviet-Somalia alliance. I laughed when clueless GeneralSNM talked about "baby nation that was not prepared" because this was actually the case in our first war with Ethiopia in 1964 and not in '77 when we defeated Ethiopia but were defeated by the communists.

Pan-Somalism was greater then Siad and to question why it engulfed Somalia in 1977 is to not understand Somali History which GeneralSNM has zero understanding of.

Do you understand the difference?

Read this Library of Congress article

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... +so0027%29

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby FAH1223 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:37 am

Voltage, I don't disagree with you. The mentality was different back then and the whole Somaliweyn dream was alive and well. THAT is the difference from any Somali outlook we have here today. I'm not necessarily being critical of why that sentiment was there because you can understand that by just looking at 1960 and the referendum in Kenya which was refused among all other things... colonialism was still fresh.

You probably didn't really understand what I particulary was saying. I don't really question why it happened, I'm more critical of the priorities set. Sure, Siad was a faciliatator... but he could have multi-managed the Ogaden issue along with safely having an eye on the long term financial and military qualities of Somalia itself (We were in war with no real help or ally similar to 1964...this time Ethiopia having Soviet and Soviets telling us to back away... and Jimmy Carter didn't help). It was putting your eggs in one basket... the Arabs helped with some cash.. but the Americans weren't going to so all we had was the Soviet arms and our big army. As you said Somalia as constituted in 1960 wasn't anyone's goal... but at the same token, Somalia itself took a back seat to the other Somali areas of interest. A stronger and lasting somalia was inevitable with Ethiopia's upheavel if war was averted and that alone would have had more sway in the Ogaden.. Albeit an army wouldn't take the whole dessert in a couple weeks, but without war, we would have an upper hand. I just think that the older generation should have put a priority first in Somalia more greatly than freeing Somali areas with too little of patience.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:10 pm

Who and why are deleting all my posts here???? :evil: :evil:

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:19 pm

The war in ogaden lasted until 1988 when both sided signed peace.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby The_Emperior5 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:19 pm

Who and why are deleting all my posts here???? :evil: :evil:
because people hate the truth :down:

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 pm

Well I say Somalia could win that war but Barre was betrayed,SNA controlled 90% of Ogaden until cuban and russian intervention.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby Babygirl- » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:28 pm

NUKE CUBA!! 8-)

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:31 pm

But we must not forget this:

Now Somalia has the oportunity to defeat Ethiopia and allies and create a new and better state.

I think the Greater Somalia dream is very close now.

:som:

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby Warsame101 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:55 am

I disagree. On paper, the objective to reclaim the Ogaden region was 100% achievable however it was due the unpredictable manoeuvres (i.e. Soviet switching alliances) that jeopardized the whole operation.

Somalia first pursued the diplomatic route in 1971 by advocating for a joint confederation of the Somali region and ultimately let its people decide which country they want to merge with. Ethiopia rejected the proposal and signed some under-the-table deals with Kenya to undermine Somalia's diplomatic efforts to regain its lost territories.

It was then in 1975 that we started preparing for the option to use force and it couldn't have come at a better time. Somalia had a far more advanced military technology and superior training than the ill-equipped Ethiopian army who were also engaged with several rebel movements including the Eritrean Liberation Front. Being a member of the Arab Union ensured that we would receive a continious supply of arms, which we did. We had the backing of the majority of Muslim nations, not to mention China. Somalia had an aid relationship with the Soviets since 1960 and they were sympathetic about Somalia's policy since Ethiopia's major supplier were the Americans as the Derg junta still held pro-western views. It was only in early 1977, two months prior to the 1977 war that Mengistu assumed power and started lobbying for Soviet support. Somalia initated the operation in June 1977, reclaimed its terrorities by Nov, 1977 and the Soviets switched sides around that time.

Despite Soviet military support, they had to airlift 20,000 Cuban troops (1/3 of Somalia's army) to curb Somalia's advances. One British MP noted at that time that the Soviet, a super-power at that time, deployed over 400 of their latest tanks in the Somali Region. Even Great Britain during that time didn't had that amount of tanks.

So no, launching the war was not a mistake, just that no one could have predicted the sudden alliance-switch.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:38 pm

Warsame:
On paper, the objective to reclaim the Ogaden region was 100% achievable
Of course,Ethiopia was living a civil war in 1977,so Somalia could conquer Ogaden because the SNA was very strong in that year,but the treason of Soviet Union and Cuba changed the outcome of the war.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby Xamari_76 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:03 pm

Who and why are deleting all my posts here???? :evil: :evil:
Because your an Ethiopian.

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby luis1 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:37 pm

I am a cuban,cuban,cuban,cuban. :twisted:

I live in Peru but I was born in Cuba.

How many times I have to say that? :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Somali-Ethiopian War Aftermath - 1978-the problem.

Postby Jamac_Yare » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:08 pm

GENERAL you being a somalilander

SOMALIA can burn in hell you got your 40 acres ciirkaa haa uu baxaan maxaa ka rabtaa


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