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I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:28 pm
by Voltage
Few eloquent words have made me understand exactly the root cause of all of Somalia's problems.
Starting 3:45 listen to this eloquent explanation
Re: I finally understand why they rose up against Siyaad.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:52 pm
by aka-peace-
that is a very eloquent and emotive speech however, the real cause of all of Somalia's problems is that the somali elites (including siyaad, his predecessors and the current so called leaders) were and still are hell bent on gaining control of the state and its resources to advance their own personal welfare rather than that of the somali nation. they use clan system to control the ignorant illiterate masses to advance their interests.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:01 pm
by Voltage
Peace that is definitely a component but some of the things that proof that is not always the case is the personal circumstance of say a man like Siyaad himself. Many Somalis consider him many negative things but I've never come across accusations of personal corruption. For example when you say personal welfare, I look at other African leaders who amass houses, bank accounts, etc while Siyaad did not have a thing to his name beyond Villa Somalia which was the state house. I think the problem is bigger than personalities and potential suspicions about interest in personal welfare. There is an underlying foundation to the whole situation and the description of our nomadic culture and the process with which it has impacted our statehood is really extraordinary.
Somalida calanka ka hor maxaa ka dhaxeeyey? Even now nomads maxaa ka dhaxayso? Nothing. Calanka ma dhawraysid hadaad qolo kale ku sheegtey and every successive government in Somalia has been coined a reer hebel institution. It was true for Siyaad, it was true for the 60's and it is still going on although the wadaado have broken the back of that status quo in the south in recent times. Even look at Somaliland's secession attempts. The reer hebel phanemonon is very prominent looking at such thing as Kulmiye which is almost entire viewed as a reer hebel institution or the presidency which is viewed as a marriage between galbeed, hence a reer hebel institution.
As a nomadic people whose culture is shaped by that lifestyle, we have no sense of sharing. When a clan builds a baraag, they did not build it for the community. They built it for themselves. The opposing clan will naturally invade and if stronger take over the baraag in times of need since there is no way they will be given water.
Same thing as happened here.
The first thing that Somalis have come to share is the Blue flag and once the Blue flag has become or perceived to become the personal property of a clan, the opposing clan will naturally invade because they are barred from the fruits of that flag in their minds.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:06 pm
by Basra-
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:11 pm
by king of kismayo
somalia needs to institutionalize the wild and free clans of somalia, with their own courts simmiliar to military tribunals and regulatory body like stock exchange authority.
the problem is that qabiils are unregulated and unacountable to any written law and somalia needs Property law to settle land disputed with clear defined bounderies.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:19 pm
by Somalian_Boqor
Few eloquent words have made me understand exactly the root cause of all of Somalia's problems.
Starting 3:45 listen to this eloquent explanation
Wallahi he hit the nail right on the head. I think Federalism can help over come this problem in the long run, giving the clans something they feel, that belongs to them. Somalis Don't trust each other and really just fear another Siyad Barre at the end of the day.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:26 pm
by Voltage
Wallahi he hit the nail right on the head. I think Federalism can help over come this problem in the long run, giving the clans something they feel, that belongs to them. Somalis Don't trust each other and really just fear another Siyad Barre at the end of the day.
Sxb it is greater than Siyaad. A year after independence, there was the lament "marna rashiid, marna rizaaq, inta kale ma rootiyaa". Everything else is a symptom, the disease is what has been outlined in the video.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:27 pm
by AbdiWahab252
Voltage,
Siyaad himself may have not enriched himself but that can not be said of his wife, children and close kin. They enrichened themselves lavishly under his rule along with other members of his elite.
Btw, this Cabdiwahid fella should have gotten the nomination instead of Maslax. He is a more brilliant and eloquent man whom i personally would have preferred over Sheik Sharif.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:56 pm
by grandpakhalif
Voltage,
Siyaad himself may have not enriched himself but that can not be said of his wife, children and close kin. They enrichened themselves lavishly under his rule along with other members of his elite.
Btw, this Cabdiwahid fella should have gotten the nomination instead of Maslax. He is a more brilliant and eloquent man whom i personally would have preferred over Sheik Sharif.
Yes he would have been an outstanding president

he does not suffer from cuqdad iyo qabil
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:08 pm
by aka-peace-
voltage
it doesn't matter whether siyaad was corrupt or whether or not he amaseds houses, bank accounts or other personal wealth. my my point here is that every somali government or maamul that has ever existed was defined corruption, nepotism and misuse of power. every somali government was control by a small group of corrupt elites and individuals who used the wealth and the resources of the nation to better their own lives and the life's of their immediate family. there is absolutely nothing to distinguish between between the ways in which the previous Somali governments and the current maamuls (somaliland and puntland) operate, they are all characterised by endemic corruption, nepotism, no rule of law, accountability or transparency. they all benefit the life's of the few at the expense of the masses. the clan system is the source that fuels and maintains somalia's problem however it is not the root cause. the root of the problem is cause is that the Somali elite use their clans as dispensable pawns to advance their own personal interests and the Somali masses are too ignorant and uneducated to realise this and so they just toe the clan-line. the Somali elites were not (and never were) interested in the the socio-economic development of somalia. the reason for this is that Somali society is defined by destructively extreme individualism which is not incompatible with notions of unity and nation-hood. the clan system which all Somali are obsessed with does not benefit 99.99 of Somalis and it only benefits the incompanent corrupt Somali leaders and officials (like the guy in the video) who warn us of the evils of tribalism standing when the public platform, who ironically owe their position of power to tribalism

Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:22 pm
by King-of-Awdal
I don't think i have heard of the previous presidents before MSB stole any money or accumalted personal wealth from the state either. I listened to the speech but i still had trouble understanding him but than am not normal.

Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:24 pm
by GENERAL_SNM
Voltage many times you have claimed that the faqash ''had every right to defend its terriotary from rebels backed by the enemy'' and this was your justification for the bombings.
Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:28 pm
by The_Emperior5
Voltage many times you have claimed that the faqash ''had every right to defend its terriotary from rebels backed by the enemy'' and this was your justification for the bombings.
Did u even watch The video

Topica waad ka yara dhacsantahay
Re: I finally understand why they rose up against Siyaad.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:31 pm
by nomadicwarlord
that is a very eloquent and emotive speech however, the real cause of all of Somalia's problems is that the somali elites (including siyaad, his predecessors and the current so called leaders) were and still are hell bent on gaining control of the state and its resources to advance their own personal welfare rather than that of the somali nation. they use clan system to control the ignorant illiterate masses to advance their interests.
On point.

Re: I finally understand why they rose up.
Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:32 pm
by aka-peace-
Even look at Somaliland's secession attempts. The reer hebel phanemonon is very prominent looking at such thing as Kulmiye which is almost entire viewed as a reer hebel institution or the presidency which is viewed as a marriage between galbeed, hence a reer hebel institution.
.
voltage this illustrates my point. it doesn't matter whether or not a party is associated with a clan, what matter is that the party reflects the personal ambition of few individuals and therefore if it was to gain power, it would only benefits the life's of those individuals at the top. this doesn't have any effects whatsoever on the life's of the average clan member, in fact his personal political and economic circumstances would remain the same regardless of the party that wins. therefore the clan system only benefits few people and most of us are nothing more than PAWNS in a game played by others.
p.s the people here who support kulmiye think they are supporting their clan when in reality they are supporting the pockets of siilanyo, his family and his associates.