Somali Suufis and Ahmediya

[manarab]

You can read over all our exchanges on this tread and anyone can agree i have kept it so simple any layman can understand all i have said and i happy to say all mistakes are mine alone.

Statement in question that ManArab is trying so hard to strategically dismantle :

''May Allah protect them from facists who wish to Judge where only Allah(swt) has exclusive right of judgement.''

- Wahabi believes he is worshiping Allah(swt) in the best way possible as a muslim.
- Sufi believes he is worshiping Allah(swt) in the best way possible as a muslim.

ManArab who apart from Allah(swt) has exclusive right to judge which of them is a better muslim?

It appears we're at an impasse. I've extensively searched the online Islamic literature and major search engines for anything that comes close to "Allah's exclusive Right of Judgment"; the only result is this topic. You tried to define part of it from a wiki/dic, but that didn't work.

[Cirwaaq]

I''t appears we're at an impasse. I've extensively searched the online Islamic literature and major search engines for anything that comes close to "Allah's exclusive Right of Judgment"; the only result is this topic. You tried to define part of it from a wiki/dic, but that didn't work.''

In context and with specific reference to the single statement:

May Allah protect them(Sufis) from facists(Wahabis) who wish to Judge where only Allah(swt) has exclusive right of judgement.

We will agree that you dont dispute there are certain judgements reserved as Exclusive Right of Allah(swt)?

For instance:

- Among the countless Version of Islam in practice only Allah(swt) can judge which is worthy of reward or punishment.

I know you know this and of anything else you may percieve as an error on my part then feel free to enlighten me.

[manarab]

In context and with specific reference to the single statement:

May Allah protect them(Sufis) from facists(Wahabis) who wish to Judge where only Allah(swt) has exclusive right of judgement.

We will agree that you dont dispute there are certain judgements reserved as Exclusive Right of Allah(swt)?

For instance:

- Among the countless Version of Islam in practice only Allah(swt) can judge which is worthy of reward or punishment.

I know you know this and of anything else you may percieve as an error on my part then feel free to enlighten me.

You've failed to provide a single Islamic/Muslim link that talks (even remotely) about Allah's exclusive Right of Judgment. For all I know, you're talking about something that doesn't exist in Islam. I cannot proceed a discussion/argument without Islamic/Muslim references or sources.

[Cirwaaq]

Perhabs you can answer just 1 question.

Is it or is it not Allah's Exclusive right to Judge which of the many versions of Islam to reward or to punish?

This is a question and i do hope there is no requirement for a prerequisite!

[manarab]

Is it or is it not Allah's Exclusive right to Judge which of the many versions of Islam to reward or to punish?

How am I supposed to answer a question that lacks an Islamic definition? The least you can do is get a Wikipedia (which has many Islamic entries) entry that explains Allah's Exclusive right to Judge. You, I and others know what Hajj is; it's part of Islam. If I challenge you to bring its definition or explain what it is, you will get thousands/millions of links/sources (many Islamic, others non-Islamic), including Wikipedia.

[Cirwaaq]

Is it or is it not Allah's Exclusive right to Judge which of the many versions of Islam to reward or to punish?

How am I supposed to answer a question that lacks an Islamic definition? The least you can do is get a Wikipedia (which has many Islamic entries) entry that explains Allah's Exclusive right to Judge. You, I and others know what Hajj is; it's part of Islam. If I challenge you to bring its definition or explain what it is, you will get thousands/millions of links/sources (many Islamic, others non-Islamic), including Wikipedia.

In your opinion who stands judge over the actions of man on the day of judgement?

[manarab]

In your opinion who stands judge over the actions of man on the day of judgement?

The subject is about Wahabis supposedly judging people in this life, and 'stealing' a right reserved to only God. So, stay with the thesis, and try to provide a definition from a link/source.

[Cirwaaq]

In your opinion who stands judge over the actions of man on the day of judgement?

The subject is about Wahabis supposedly judging people in this life, and 'stealing' a right reserved to only God. So, stay with the thesis, and try to provide a definition from a link/source.

Are you a follower of the Wahabi Sect?

[Cirwaaq]

Afahukma aljahiliyyati yabghoona waman ahsanu mina Allahu hukman liqawmin yooqinoona.

(Is it then the judgment of [the times of] ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah for judgment for a people whose faith is assured?) (Al-Ma'idah 5:50)

Yusuf Ali - Do they then seek after a judgment of (the days of) ignorance? But who, for a people whose faith is assured, can give better judgment than Allah?
Pickthal - Is it a judgment of the time of (pagan) ignorance that they are seeking? Who is better than Allah for judgment to a people who have certainty (in their belief)?
Arberry - Is it the judgment of pagandom then that they are seeking? Yet who is fairer in judgment than God, for a people having sure faith?
Shakir - Is it then the judgment of (the times of) ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure?
Sarwar - Do they want judgments that are issued out of ignorance? Who is a better judge for the people whose belief is based on certainty, than God?
Khalifa - Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than GOD's for those who have attained certainty?
Hilali/Khan - Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allah for a people who have firm Faith.
H/K/Saheeh - Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].
Malik - By rejecting the Divine Law do they wish to be judged by the laws of ignorance? Who is a better Judge than Allah for those who believe in Him?[50]
QXP - Do they want to turn back to the Ways of Ignorance? Who can provide more equitable rules than Allah to a people who have attained Conviction in the Truth?
Maulana Ali - Is it then the judgment of ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure?
Free Minds - Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people that comprehend?
Qaribullah I - s it pagan laws that they wish to be judged by? Who is a better judge than Allah for a nation whose belief is firm?

[Leila25]

All muslims are not going to practice Islam in the same manner, that is a fact, we have to learn to be tolerant of differences or else we are heading towards violence. Calling others names such us innovator etc is a waste of time, leave that to Allah.

[*Nobleman*]

All muslims are not going to practice Islam in the same manner, that is a fact, we have to learn to be tolerant of differences or else we are heading towards violence. Calling others names such us innovator etc is a waste of time, leave that to Allah.

Just some hadiths for you regarding this matter

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said,
"Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon
him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of
mankind."

Reported by Bukhaaree, 12/41 and Muslim, 9/140

[Executive]

All muslims are not going to practice Islam in the same manner, that is a fact, we have to learn to be tolerant of differences or else we are heading towards violence. Calling others names such us innovator etc is a waste of time, leave that to Allah.

Just some hadiths for you regarding this matter

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said,
"Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon
him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of
mankind."

Reported by Bukhaaree, 12/41 and Muslim, 9/140

[Leila25]

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said,
"Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon
him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of
mankind."

Posting a hadith without an explantion to its background, context or relation to the topic does not validate your view. Its just cut and paste. You think Sufis are innovators, they think they are on the right path, calling each other names is pointless as you do not have the power to do anything about it. Unless of course you want to do what Al Shabab are doing now and suppress any form of religious freedom. In the long term there will always be differences, this is how Allah intended the world to be.

[Mad May]

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said,
"Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon
him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of
mankind."

Posting a hadith without an explantion to its background, context or relation to the topic does not validate your view. Its just cut and paste. You think Sufis are innovators, they think they are on the right path, calling each other names is pointless as you do not have the power to do anything about it. Unless of course you want to do what Al Shabab are doing now and suppress any form of religious freedom. In the long term there will always be differences, this is how Allah intended the world to be.

[Talo alle udaa]

Diintu waa hal ee laba ma aha. Quraankuna wa hal, Axaadithta nabigana (saw) wa la yaqaan.

Dadka muslimka ahna amar ayaa dul saaran in eey wixi bidco/xaraan ah la reebo, macruufkana la amro.