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Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:07 pm
by Babygirl-

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:08 pm
by bareento
Oxidant wrote:
bareento wrote:Oxydant,

How does it touches Somali peoples interest if poor Oromo/Amhara farmers use the Water God gave them?
Why do u prefer so much your neighbours die of hunger than Arabs paying some Royalties?

Really disturbing



Why do Ethiopians complain about an agreement drawn up by the British? Wasn't the Ogaden handed to them by the British without the consent of Ogadens. Who cares about these farmers, most farms in Ethiopia have been sold to foreign companies leaving many farmers homeless.

Egypt lives on the Nile. You people need to understand that. Any threat to the Nile will be dealt with accordingly.



Forbidding those farmers (u dont care the life), using their God given water, obliges them to come and settle in Ogadenia and use Ogadenian rivers;
Egypt will be happy with that as its not part of Nile water bassin!
In one generation u will have 2 to 3 million industrious Oromo/Amhara farmers all over Somalia!
Wat do u gain from that?

Its paradoxal, but sometimes u must help your arch enemy in order to defend your interest :mrgreen:

B.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:09 pm
by Oxidant
qoraxeey wrote:
warya please :roll:

we dont need more war in the world :down:



I agree we don't. However, War is inevitable. Water wars are coming to Africa and all over the world.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:09 pm
by oldenglish
Egypt vs Ethiopia :lol:

C'mon Egypt doesnt need to lift a finger their proxy is Sudan & Eritrea and with two fronts open the poor Ethiopia has no chance. War doesnt even need to be declared its a way for Ethiopia to beg for more aid.

Meles is a good leader.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:10 pm
by Babygirl-
In 1979, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat said: “The only matter that could take. Egypt to war again is water.”

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:11 pm
by bareento
Babygirl- wrote:
AbdiWahab252 wrote:
bareento wrote:Babygirl,

Somalis, this time, should side with their negro brethern as Egyptians are pushing Ethio to make intensive use of Shabelle and Gannaalee
That will jeopardize future developpement of Somalia

B.



Well spoken Brother :up:



Once Egypt Teaches 1 (most likely Ethiopia) or two African Nations never to mess with another countries water resources especially an ally of EGYPT, the Shabelle & Juba will be safe. 8-)

Baraneto Do you care about Somalis under Habash & Kenyan Occupation? & their Suffering?


If it were for me, Ogadenia should not stay one more second under ethio occupation...Ogadenias self determination is in everyones interest :up:

B.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:12 pm
by Oxidant
bareento wrote:
Forbidding those farmers (u dont care the life), using their God given water, obliges them to come and settle in Ogadenia and use Ogadenian rivers;
Egypt will be happy with that as its not part of Nile water bassin!
In one generation u will have 2 to 3 million industrious Oromo/Amhara farmers all over Somalia!
Wat do u gain from that?

Its paradoxal, but sometimes u must help your arch enemy in order to defend your interest :mrgreen:

B.



War with Egypt will mean the destruction of Ethiopia. Mark my words. If Eritrea/Sudan get involved, the country won't exist. Meles will go back to Tigray and try to secede. With Ethiopian army destroyed, Armed groups will run riot

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:14 pm
by Oxidant
Babygirl- wrote:
In 1979, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat said: “The only matter that could take. Egypt to war again is water.”



I can guarantee you. That Egypt has already planned out the war with Ethiopia. They have all targets ready, just need the green light and bombs way. Trust me, this is Egypt livelihood. They will not allow Ethiopians to end their lion share of the Nile. The whole country ancient and modern is built on the Nile. They are not just going to throw away this because of the cries of some African states.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:18 pm
by bareento
Oxidant wrote:
bareento wrote:
Forbidding those farmers (u dont care the life), using their God given water, obliges them to come and settle in Ogadenia and use Ogadenian rivers;
Egypt will be happy with that as its not part of Nile water bassin!
In one generation u will have 2 to 3 million industrious Oromo/Amhara farmers all over Somalia!
Wat do u gain from that?

Its paradoxal, but sometimes u must help your arch enemy in order to defend your interest :mrgreen:

B.



War with Egypt will mean the destruction of Ethiopia. Mark my words. If Eritrea/Sudan get involved, the country won't exist. Meles will go back to Tigray and try to secede. With Ethiopian army destroyed, Armed groups will run riot


One should think in long term, even with complete victory Egypt will kill one million Ethios there will be still 79 million alive, these farmers will still wanting the water for survival.
Egypt should kill more than that in very short time, they do not have the capacity to do that and the world would not allow that.

Com on guys Eretrea will sure take maximum benefit from any Ethio-Egyptian friction but will never go to war to forbid ethio farmers from using their water!!!
They have a very strong sens of history for that :up:

B.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:22 pm
by Oxidant
bareento wrote:One should think in long term, even with complete victory Egypt will kill one million Ethios there will be still 79 million alive, these farmers will still wanting the water for survival.
Egypt should kill more than that in very short time, they do not have the capacity to do that and the world would not allow that.

Com on guys Eretrea will sure take maximum benefit from any Ethio-Egyptian friction but will never go to war to forbid ethio farmers from using their water!!!
They have a very strong sens of history for that :up:

B.



The next time they go to war(After the potential one). Egypt will possess a wide range of nuclear weapons. They will do anything necessary to protect the Nile. Eritrea doesn't care about those farmers. They want to get even for all the aggressiveness from Ethiopia and the TPLF. If this really happens and Eritrea and Sudan help Egypt. This will be a bloody costly war for a poor landlocked country

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:26 pm
by Babygirl-
States stockpile arms as row over Nile waters rages
News
Written by Edris Kiggundu
Wednesday, 19 May 2010 21:31
Egypt adopts tough stance as Uganda calls for dialogue

Two senior Egyptian government officials have said that Egypt would do anything –including going to war – to safeguard what they called their country’s historic right to the largest share of the Nile waters.

Briefing the Egyptian Parliament last week, Moufid Shehab, the Minister of Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is quoted by MENA, a state news agency, as having said that the four countries that signed the Nile River Co-operative Framework Agreement (CFA) last week took a “wrong step.” He added that this was not “the end of the game,” affirming that Cairo still believes in its “inalienable and historical rights” over Nile waters.

Another government official, Mohammed Allam, the minister of Water Resources and Irrigation, added: “Egypt reserves the right to take whatever course it sees suitable to safeguard its share.”

Their comments came shortly after four Nile basin countries; Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania and Ethiopia signed the Nile River Cooperative Framework Agreement (CFA) last week, in Entebbe.

Other countries; Kenya, DR Congo and Burundi affirmed that they would also sign the agreement that will transform the Nile Basin Initiative (NBI) into the Nile Basin Commission (NBC), which will coordinate the equitable usage of the water. Countries will have to submit their intended projects along the Nile to the Commission for endorsement.

On their part, Egypt and Sudan declined to sign the agreement, saying they want to maintain the status quo as stipulated in two colonial agreements they signed with the British colonialists in 1929 and 1959. These agreements stipulate that other riparian countries should first seek permission from them before embarking on any large scale development projects that would affect the level and flow of the waters.

But of the two, Egypt appears to be more aggrieved. While Egypt has not explicitly declared that it will take up arms to defend its rights, the stern statements from their ministers barely disguise the potential for conflict.

As early as April this year, when it became clear that Egypt would lose the battle over the agreement, some Egyptian legislators urged their government to take stronger action against other Nile basin countries – a veiled threat of war.
Other Nile basin countries, including Uganda, are already wary of this threat.

Okello Henry Oryem, the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, told The Observer on Tuesday that the war threats, if Egypt was indeed invoking them, were unfortunate.

“The Government of Uganda was doing its job [by signing the agreement]. These [war] threats should not be there and I know the door is still open for dialogue with our brothers (Egypt) under the AU framework,” Oryem said.
Kenya’s Director of Water Resources, John Nyaro, told the BBC last week: “If we don’t have an agreed co-operative framework, there will be no peace.”

A book on the conflict published this year notes among other things that until the countries find a peaceful resolution, the fear of war will always loom large.
“The Nile waters might become a pathway to peace or a currency of war or both at different historical junctures,” notes the book titled: The River Nile in the Post Colonial Age; Conflict and cooperation among the Nile Basin Countries. The book was edited by Terje Tvedt, a professor of development studies at the University of Bergen in Norway.

No wonder some analysts have linked the disagreement over the Nile waters to increased military spending by some countries in the East African region in anticipation of war.

In a 2008 survey of weapons purchases carried out by the Swedish International Peace Research Institute, Kenya was ranked fourth out of 23 East and Southern African countries and, according to a news report in The East African of April 12, 2010, Kenya’s military expenditure rose from $222 million in 1999 to $260 million in 2008.

The survey notes that Kenya has recently purchased armoured personnel carriers and Y-12 military utility planes from China. For Uganda’s case, notes the study, military spending rose from $173 million to $237 million between 2003 and 2008.
Last month, while defending the army’s decision to buy six fighter jets from Russia for Shs 654 billion, Army Spokesperson, Lt. Col. Felix Kulayigye, said Uganda needed the jets because it faced many threats among them the unresolved conflict over the Nile waters.
Reached this week, Kulayigye declined to expound on his earlier assertions.

Oweyegha Afunaduula, who chairs the Nile Basin Discourse, a civil society organisation that has been at the forefront of ensuring equitable sharing of the waters, told The Observer that Egypt’s war threats will not work.
“Whenever we talk about equity, Egypt talks about war in an attempt to harass other countries to submit to their terms. We are opposed to this arm-twisting,” Afunaduula said.

It is not the first time that threats of war have punctuated negotiations over the Nile. In 1985, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the former UN Secretary General who at that time was Egypt’s minister of Foreign Affairs, told the BBC Radio 4 in an interview that the next war in the region could be over the waters of the Nile, not politics.

“The security of Egypt is related to the relation between Egypt and Ethiopia, Sudan, Kenya and other African countries. The real problem is that we need an additional quantity of water and we will not have an additional quantity of water unless we find an agreement with the upstream countries which also need water and have not used Nile water until now,” he said.

Maj. Gen. James Kazini, the late former army commander, said in 2002 while launching a new Defence Reform Programme, that Egypt and Sudan “wanted to control Uganda through River Nile”. He too cautioned that the next war in Africa could be over water.

Treacherous history

Egypt’s claim to the Nile waters is based on a 1929 agreement between it and Great Britain on behalf of Britain’s colonies which gave Cairo the right to most of the more than 100 billion cubic meters of Nile waters.

Egypt says this agreement with Britain is sufficient enough to address any outstanding issues regarding the sharing of the Nile waters, but other Nile basin countries, including Uganda, contend that this particular agreement favours the Egyptians and have been working on a new agreement.

The Nile River Basin is home to an estimated 160 million people, while almost 300 million live in the 10 countries that share its waters. The World Bank projected in a 2004 report that the population in the basin will double in the next 25 years, adding more pressure on arable land.

As the 10 riparian countries–Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Eritrea–seek to exploit the Nile waters to provide for their growing populations, the dispute simmers.
Egypt owes its entire existence to the Nile.

The largely arid country has no other source of fresh water and depends on the river for irrigation and industrialisation projects to sustain its 80 million people. However, the countries upstream, including Uganda, want to use the Nile to build dams and create hydroelectric power for industrialisation, to provide clean drinking water to their people, and to establish irrigation schemes to grow enough food to feed their growing populations.

During a water conference in March, President Museveni attacked the colonial agreements on the Nile waters. The agreements, he noted, had stipulated that 85 billion cubic meters of water per annum would be consumed by Egypt and 18 billion by Sudan.
“The rest of us are supposed to get nothing,” he said.

By signing the CFA last week, the riparian countries sought to correct this historical imbalance.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:28 pm
by Oxidant
Babygirl- wrote:States stockpile arms as row over Nile waters rages
News
Written by Edris Kiggundu
Wednesday, 19 May 2010 21:31
Egypt adopts tough stance as Uganda calls for dialogue

Two senior Egyptian government officials have said that Egypt would do anything –including going to war – to safeguard what they called their country’s historic right to the largest share of the Nile waters.

Briefing the Egyptian Parliament last week, Moufid Shehab, the Minister of Legal and Parliamentary Affairs is quoted by MENA, a state news agency, as having said that the four countries that signed the Nile River Co-operative Framework Agreement (CFA) last week took a “wrong step.” He added that this was not “the end of the game,” affirming that Cairo still believes in its “inalienable and historical rights” over Nile waters.

Another government official, Mohammed Allam, the minister of Water Resources and Irrigation, added: “Egypt reserves the right to take whatever course it sees suitable to safeguard its share.”

Their comments came shortly after four Nile basin countries; Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania and Ethiopia signed the Nile River Cooperative Framework Agreement (CFA) last week, in Entebbe.

Other countries; Kenya, DR Congo and Burundi affirmed that they would also sign the agreement that will transform the Nile Basin Initiative (NBI) into the Nile Basin Commission (NBC), which will coordinate the equitable usage of the water. Countries will have to submit their intended projects along the Nile to the Commission for endorsement.

On their part, Egypt and Sudan declined to sign the agreement, saying they want to maintain the status quo as stipulated in two colonial agreements they signed with the British colonialists in 1929 and 1959. These agreements stipulate that other riparian countries should first seek permission from them before embarking on any large scale development projects that would affect the level and flow of the waters.

But of the two, Egypt appears to be more aggrieved. While Egypt has not explicitly declared that it will take up arms to defend its rights, the stern statements from their ministers barely disguise the potential for conflict.

As early as April this year, when it became clear that Egypt would lose the battle over the agreement, some Egyptian legislators urged their government to take stronger action against other Nile basin countries – a veiled threat of war.
Other Nile basin countries, including Uganda, are already wary of this threat.

Okello Henry Oryem, the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, told The Observer on Tuesday that the war threats, if Egypt was indeed invoking them, were unfortunate.

“The Government of Uganda was doing its job [by signing the agreement]. These [war] threats should not be there and I know the door is still open for dialogue with our brothers (Egypt) under the AU framework,” Oryem said.
Kenya’s Director of Water Resources, John Nyaro, told the BBC last week: “If we don’t have an agreed co-operative framework, there will be no peace.”

A book on the conflict published this year notes among other things that until the countries find a peaceful resolution, the fear of war will always loom large.
“The Nile waters might become a pathway to peace or a currency of war or both at different historical junctures,” notes the book titled: The River Nile in the Post Colonial Age; Conflict and cooperation among the Nile Basin Countries. The book was edited by Terje Tvedt, a professor of development studies at the University of Bergen in Norway.

No wonder some analysts have linked the disagreement over the Nile waters to increased military spending by some countries in the East African region in anticipation of war.

In a 2008 survey of weapons purchases carried out by the Swedish International Peace Research Institute, Kenya was ranked fourth out of 23 East and Southern African countries and, according to a news report in The East African of April 12, 2010, Kenya’s military expenditure rose from $222 million in 1999 to $260 million in 2008.

The survey notes that Kenya has recently purchased armoured personnel carriers and Y-12 military utility planes from China. For Uganda’s case, notes the study, military spending rose from $173 million to $237 million between 2003 and 2008.
Last month, while defending the army’s decision to buy six fighter jets from Russia for Shs 654 billion, Army Spokesperson, Lt. Col. Felix Kulayigye, said Uganda needed the jets because it faced many threats among them the unresolved conflict over the Nile waters.
Reached this week, Kulayigye declined to expound on his earlier assertions.

Oweyegha Afunaduula, who chairs the Nile Basin Discourse, a civil society organisation that has been at the forefront of ensuring equitable sharing of the waters, told The Observer that Egypt’s war threats will not work.
“Whenever we talk about equity, Egypt talks about war in an attempt to harass other countries to submit to their terms. We are opposed to this arm-twisting,” Afunaduula said.

It is not the first time that threats of war have punctuated negotiations over the Nile. In 1985, Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the former UN Secretary General who at that time was Egypt’s minister of Foreign Affairs, told the BBC Radio 4 in an interview that the next war in the region could be over the waters of the Nile, not politics.

“The security of Egypt is related to the relation between Egypt and Ethiopia, Sudan, Kenya and other African countries. The real problem is that we need an additional quantity of water and we will not have an additional quantity of water unless we find an agreement with the upstream countries which also need water and have not used Nile water until now,” he said.

Maj. Gen. James Kazini, the late former army commander, said in 2002 while launching a new Defence Reform Programme, that Egypt and Sudan “wanted to control Uganda through River Nile”. He too cautioned that the next war in Africa could be over water.

Treacherous history

Egypt’s claim to the Nile waters is based on a 1929 agreement between it and Great Britain on behalf of Britain’s colonies which gave Cairo the right to most of the more than 100 billion cubic meters of Nile waters.

Egypt says this agreement with Britain is sufficient enough to address any outstanding issues regarding the sharing of the Nile waters, but other Nile basin countries, including Uganda, contend that this particular agreement favours the Egyptians and have been working on a new agreement.

The Nile River Basin is home to an estimated 160 million people, while almost 300 million live in the 10 countries that share its waters. The World Bank projected in a 2004 report that the population in the basin will double in the next 25 years, adding more pressure on arable land.

As the 10 riparian countries–Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Eritrea–seek to exploit the Nile waters to provide for their growing populations, the dispute simmers.
Egypt owes its entire existence to the Nile.

The largely arid country has no other source of fresh water and depends on the river for irrigation and industrialisation projects to sustain its 80 million people. However, the countries upstream, including Uganda, want to use the Nile to build dams and create hydroelectric power for industrialisation, to provide clean drinking water to their people, and to establish irrigation schemes to grow enough food to feed their growing populations.

During a water conference in March, President Museveni attacked the colonial agreements on the Nile waters. The agreements, he noted, had stipulated that 85 billion cubic meters of water per annum would be consumed by Egypt and 18 billion by Sudan.
“The rest of us are supposed to get nothing,” he said.

By signing the CFA last week, the riparian countries sought to correct this historical imbalance.




Allah Akbur, It will be the Pharaohs that bring down the Abyssinian colonialist :up:

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:30 pm
by Babygirl-
Egypt won't give up one drop of Nile water rights

By Samer al-Atrush (AFP)


CAIRO — Egypt is refusing to relinquish a drop of its legal right to the lion's share of Nile river water, despite demands from other African countries for a more equitable sharing agreement.

Following years of barren negotiations, seven upstream African countries -- Ethiopia, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya, DR Congo, Rwanda, Burundi-- are on Friday expected to push forward with a new water-sharing deal to replace an agreement that gives Egypt and Sudan majority control of the water flow.

Egypt has repeatedly cited its "historical" right on the river which provides the country of 80 million people with 90 percent of its water needs.

The upstream countries want to be able to implement projects, in consultation with Egypt and Sudan, but without Egypt being able to to exercise the veto power it was given by a 1929 colonial-era treaty with Britain.

A 1959 agreement between Egypt and Sudan -- following Sudan's independence in 1956 -- allocated 55.5 billion cubic metres of the Nile to Egypt, and 18.5 billion to Sudan, a combined total of 87 percent of the Nile flow.

Egypt's water needs are expected to exceed its supply by 2017, according to a government report last year.

"Egypt is exerting efforts with leaders of the upstream countries to persuade them to delay the agreement," said Hani Raslan, a Nile expert with the Ahram Centre for Political and Strategic Studies.

"The only way out of the problem is cooperation," he added.

Raslan said that the Nile Basin Intitiative -- a basin countries umbrella group funded by the World Bank -- had studied 22 projects including energy projects, saving lost water and irrigation.

"Unilateral signing will abort these projects. And Egypt will object to any project that affects its share," Raslan said.

Egypt says it is still hoping to negotiate, failing that it has threatened legal action.

"If certain countries of the Nile Basin sign an agreement without consensus, Egypt will insist that all countries respect international law," Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit told a local newspaper on Saturday.

"If necessary, we will treat this in the adequate legal way," he said, adding that his country's water rights were a "red line."

The outcome of the next meeting could unravel the 10-year-old Nile Basin Initiative, which the World Bank credits with helping keep the countries talking with each other on quotas.

Raslan says that an agreement on May 14 that excluded Egypt and Sudan would bring an end to the initiative, a message Abul Gheit says has been delivered to the basin countries.

"Egypt has been careful to affirm to the Nile Basin countries and donors that opening the door to signing the agreement means the end of negotiations and an announcement that the Nile Basin Initiative has failed," he said.

Egypt has proposed to help manage its African partners' water resources, and vowed to better make use of its own.

But Egyptian diplomats say the African countries will have a hard time financing large projects if there is no consensus among the Nile countries.

Cairo "will not accept the construction of any project in the Nile basin that could affect its water resources," Abul Gheit said.

Some observers say Egypt is not serious about negotiating.

"Egyptians are behaving with the Africans the way they accuse Israel of behaving with the Palestinians: they say they are ready to negotiate but without committing to the difficult issues," one western diplomat told AFP on condition of anonymity.

And Egypt insists that the Africans have other sources of water.

"Egypt only has water coming from the river. The Africans have it from the rains," one Egyptian diplomat said.

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:31 pm
by bareento
^^
Oxydant,
Your passionate hatred against the poor farmers is disturbing!
Secondly not everyone is driven by this passionnate unhealthy hatred!
Even majority of crazy Arabs wont consider massive nuclear bombing of poor farmers as solution.
Everyone is looking for acceptable solution; it is not in Egypts interest to have 150 million population Ethiopia starving to death;
sooner or later they will pay sthg.

It seems u do not know Eretrean peoples, eretreans do not hate Ethio population; and Ethio population do not hate Eretreans.


I am afraid Somalis wont make any benefit out of this :mrgreen:

Re: Coming War!!

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:31 pm
by Babygirl-


Oxidant Ethiopian Defeat :up: