Welcome to SomaliNet Forums, a friendly and gigantic Somali centric active community. Login to hide this block

You are currently viewing this page as a guest. By joining our community you will have the ability to post topics, ask questions, educate others, use the advanced search, subscribe to threads and access many, many other features. Registration is quick, simple and absolutely free. Join SomaliNet forums today! Please note that registered members with over 50 posts see no ads whatsoever! Are you new to SomaliNet? These forums with millions of posts are just one section of a much larger site. Just visit the front page and use the top links to explore deep into SomaliNet oasis, Somali singles, Somali business directory, Somali job bank and much more. Click here to login. If you need to reset your password, click here. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

^clear contradictions in the Bible ^ Any kafir interested ?

Daily chitchat.

Moderators: Moderators, Junior Moderators

Forum rules
This General Forum is for general discussions from daily chitchat to more serious discussions among Somalinet Forums members. Please do not use it as your Personal Message center (PM). If you want to contact a particular person or a group of people, please use the PM feature. If you want to contact the moderators, pls PM them. If you insist leaving a public message for the mods or other members, it will be deleted.
OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE
User avatar
SoMaLiSiZz
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: {{ Ard Allah }}
Contact:

Postby SoMaLiSiZz » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:29 pm

[quote="Cawar"]SOmalisiz

With all do respect , you need not to talk about the Bible and its contradictions here, as I see there are no christians in this site who are trying to defend it or intrested in comparing the Quran and the Bible.

The other point is that you open up the Quran for criticism specially from those Islamophobes in the site, and there are few of them here, plz dont fall into their trap and leave the Bible alone, we muslims gain nothing by defaming it anyway, not in this site at least![/quote]



Barak Allahu feek but >> My intentions with this was to open the eyes of some Christians of this forum and I was giving them the sources on where to look >> note; even when I post an Islamic thread u will find some of the parities bashing Islam as I see it either way there will be some ignorant people until day of judgment bashing Islam Wallahu yaclam


waad ku mahadsanthy naseexada >> Fe Aman Allah

Kamal35
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Spain
Contact:

Postby Kamal35 » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:57 pm

Somalisiz: You didn't reply to this Christian contradiction about Adam, Eve Cain and Lot (Abe was killed by this time). Cain married to... who? Eve? A woman from another tribe?.


>>I would appreciate a good reply against this Christian contradiction from the point of view that you share this biblical story.

>>Did Cain fucked his own mother, Eve, in order to "spread and multiplicate", said by God, or could Cain meet other tribes and find some other women? In this case, where these tribes came from when God created only a couple of human beings who had three children and one of them was killed by his own brother?

>>It's sounds like a great biblical contradiction here. 1+1 makes 2, not millions.

>>Please, elaborate at this point. Is it a metaphore or it must be understood under a literally way?

User avatar
*Proud_Muslimah*
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1859
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:07 am
Location: Dar'ul Kufr

Postby *Proud_Muslimah* » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:04 pm

Peace,

Refutation of the alleged internal contradictions in the Qur'an....

The Qur'an being contained in the Earlier Revelations

Concerning the thirty-fith allegation:

Quote:
The infinite loop problem Sura 26:192,195,196: "It (the Qur'an) is indeed a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds, ... in clear Arabic speech and indeed IT (the Qur'an) is in the writings of the earlier (prophets)." Now, the 'earlier writings' are the Torah and the Injil for example, written in Hebrew and Greek. HOW can an ARABIC Qur'an be contained in books of other languages? Furthermore, it would have to contain this very passage of the Qur'an since the Qur'an is properly contained in them. Hence these earlier writings have to be contained in yet other earlier writings and we are in an infinite loop, which is absurd.

Verses in question:
26:192-196. And truly, this (the Qur'ân) is a revelation from the Lord of the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists), Which the trustworthy Rûh [Jibrael (Gabriel)] has brought down; Upon your heart (O Muhammad ) that you may be (one) of the warners, In the plain Arabic language. And verily, it is in the Scriptures of former people.

1. The allegation of the critic is that these verses of the Qur'an necessitate that the Qur'an must be contained, completely word-for-word in the previous scriptures due to the phrase "it is in the scriptures of former people". This claim, however, has no basis in language. Stating that one thing is "in" another does not necessitate that it be contained completely in the referred object/location. Consider the following examples:
He was lying in bed. - Meaning that he was resting on the surface of the bed.
Look! You're in the Newspaper! - Meaning that this person is mentioned or referred to in the newspaper.
Everything the mechanic said was in the manual that we lost last year. - Meaning that the guidance given by the mechanic was also the same information/message that was available in the manual.
The above three examples demonstrate that the claim is baseless. The Qur'an is in the previous scriptures as well, which does not necessitate that it be contained completely in the previous scriptures.

2. Concerning the statement that the Qur'an is "in the scriptures of former people", there is a required supressed meaning associated with the verse. This is the meaning that is commonly placed in the brackets in a translation. One possible meaning is that the Qur'an is [referred to] in the previous scriptures. This is similar to the second example cited under the first point, "you're in the newspaper". Just as the person is mentioned in the newspaper, the Qur'an is also mentioned in previous scriptures. This is the interpretation given by Imaam Ibn Kathir Ad-Damishqi (d. 1372CE) in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Allah says [that] this Qur'an was mentioned and referred to in the previous Scriptures that were left behind by their Prophets who foretold it in ancient times and more recently. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 7, p. 276)
Other scholars have interpreted the verse to mean that the Qur'anic message was given in previous revelations as well, i.e. they all carried the same essential teachings. This is similar to the other example, Everything the mechanic said was in the manual that we lost last year. Thus, both the Qur'an and the previous scriptures gave the same guidance, just as both the mechanic and the manual gave the same guidance. As Abul Ala Maududi (d. 1979 CE) mentions in his popular commentary, Tafheem Al-Qur'an:
(196) [a revelation embodied] in the Scriptures of former people.
The same message, the same Revelation, and the same Divine teachings can be found in all the previous Scriptures. The same call to worship the One True God, the same belief in the Hereafter, and the same invitation to follow the Prophets were also stressed in those earlier Scriptures. All the Books which have come down from God denounce associating others with Him in His Divinity. All of them ask people to shun materialism. All call people to the True Path which is inextricably linked with the idea of man's accountability to God. All demand from man one and the same thing: that he should give up all notions of his own sovereignty in deference to the Divine commands brought by the Prophets. In this respect, there is nothing novel in the Qur'an; there is nothing in it which was not part of the teachings of the previous Prophets. (Maududi, Towards Understanding the Qur'an, The Islamic Foundation 1995, vol. 7, p.114 fn. 122)
Based on the above explanation, the verse would be rendered as And verily it is [preaching the same message as that found] in the Scriptures of former people. Thus, the understood meaning of the verse is that the Qur'an carries the same message as that of previous revelations from God. As Muhammad Asad writes:
(196) And, verily, [the essence of] this [revelation] is indeed found in the ancient books of divine wisdom [as well].[Lit., “in the scriptures (zubur, sing. zabur) of the ancients” (see 21: 105). This interpretation of the above verse - advanced among others by Zamakhshari and Baydawi (and, according to the former, attributed to Imam Abu Hanifah as well) - is in full consonance with the oft-repeated Quranic doctrine that the basic teachings revealed to Muhammad are in their purport (manni) identical with those preached by the earlier prophets. (Asad, The Message of the Qur'an, The Book Foundation 2003, emphasis added)
In light of the above explanation, it should be clear that the meaning of vers 26:196 is not that the arabic verses of the Qur'an are found in previous revelations, but that the Qur'anic message is the same as that found in previous revelations, and the Qur'an itself has been referred to in the previous revelations.

User avatar
*Proud_Muslimah*
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1859
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:07 am
Location: Dar'ul Kufr

Postby *Proud_Muslimah* » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:07 pm

Lot's Wife being called "An Old Woman"

Regarding the thirty-sixth alleged contradiction:

Quote:
"An old woman" and God's character About the story of Lot: "So we delivered him and his family, - all exept an old woman who lingered behind." [Sura 26:170-171] And again: "But we saved him and his family, exept his wife: she was of those who lagged behind. [Sura 7:83]. Either this is a contradiction or if indeed Lot's wife is derogatorily called "an old woman" then this does not show much respect for her as a wife of a prophet.



Verses in question:
26:170. So We saved [Prophet Lut] and his family, all, Except an old woman (his wife) among those who remained behind.

7:83. Then We saved [Prophet Lut] and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).

1. The first point that must be made is that the critic's has a gross misunderstanding with regard to the wife of Prophet Lot. She was not a noble woman worthy of respect in any way. As the Qur'an mentions about her:
66:10 For those who are bent on denying the truth God has propounded a parable in [the stories of] Noah's wife and Lot's wife: they were wedded to two of Our righteous servants, and each one betrayed her husband; 21 and neither of the two [husbands] will be of any avail to these two women when they are told [on Judgment Day], "Enter the fire with all those [other sinners] who enter it!

Thus, in Islam respect is not granted to anyone based on familal ties and relations, but rather on their character and their piety. The wife of Lot betrayed her husband and turned his people against him, while persistently rejecting God, despite the fact that her own husband was one of God's Messengers! Because of her evil, God mentions in the Qur'an that she was destined to be punished along with her rebellious nation:
27:57. So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

2. As for the two verses, then there is no contradiction between stating "Lot's wife" in one location, and stating "an old woman" in another location, since it is entirely possible that Lot's wife actually was an old woman, especially since Lot had been living and preaching amongst his nation for quite a long period.

User avatar
*Proud_Muslimah*
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 1859
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:07 am
Location: Dar'ul Kufr

Postby *Proud_Muslimah* » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:09 pm

The Response of Lot's Nation to His Call

Concerning the thirty-seventh alleged contradiction:

Quote:
More problems with the story of Lot "And his people gave NO answer but this: They said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" [Sura 7:82 & 27:56]. Yet: "But his people gave NO answer but this: They said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." [Sura 29:29]. Obviously these answers are different.



Verses in question:
27:54-56. And [thus, too, did We save] Lot, when he said unto his people: “Would you commit this abomination with your eyes open (to its being against all nature)? Must you really approach men with lust instead of women? Nay, but you are people without any awareness (of right and wrong)!” But his people’s only answer was this: “Expel [Lot and] Lot’s followers from your township! Verily, they are folk who make themselves out to be pure!”

29:28-29. And Lot, [too, was inspired by Us] when he said unto his people: “Verily, you commit abominations such as none in all the world has ever committed before you! Must you indeed approach men [with lust], and rob the wayfarer? - and must you commit these shameful deeds in your open] assemblies?” But his people’s only answer was, “Bring down upon us God’s chastisement, if thou art a man of truth!”

It is clear that when these verses are looked at in context, the responses given by the People of Lot are given in reponse to different allegations. It is ridiculous to assume that all the years of preaching Lot gave to his people only involved a singe dialogue, with a single response from his people. In his preaching he would have confronted them on many occasions about their evils. Notice also that verses 29:28-29 contain additional allegations in comparison to those found in verses 27:54-56.

More to come next time Insh'Allah Smile

PS: You can find all these refutations here ---> http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread. ... ge=1&pp=10

Kamal35
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Spain
Contact:

Postby Kamal35 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:07 am

Let's see: In the beggining of the world we have here four individuals: Adam and Eve, created by God, and Cain and Lot, sons of Adam and Eve after Cain killed his other brother Abe and left the Adams family.

And now you're speaking here about nations. Nations are thousands of individuals. Where those nations came from? Instead parroting hadiths once more time, could you reply in a simple, clear manner: Where those Lot's nations came from? By prestidigitacion or what? I never read a verse in which God "created the nations" or something like this. It seems that the scrip-writers of the Bible were really poor poor writers. When you question issues like this to Christian theologians, they just say: "It's a matter of faith. Don't question about this point. God is great, merciful". Muslim theologians don't seem to be really different here.

Again: What the hell those nations of Cain and Lot came from?

User avatar
SoMaLiSiZz
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: {{ Ard Allah }}
Contact:

Postby SoMaLiSiZz » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:51 am

[quote="Kamal35"]Somalisiz: You didn't reply to this Christian contradiction about Adam, Eve Cain and Lot (Abe was killed by this time). Cain married to... who? Eve? A woman from another tribe?.


>>I would appreciate a good reply against this Christian contradiction from the point of view that you share this biblical story.

>>Did Cain **** his own mother, Eve, in order to "spread and multiplicate", said by God, or could Cain meet other tribes and find some other women? In this case, where these tribes came from when God created only a couple of human beings who had three children and one of them was killed by his own brother?

>>It's sounds like a great biblical contradiction here. 1+1 makes 2, not millions.

>>Please, elaborate at this point. Is it a metaphore or it must be understood under a literally way?[/quote]



I did answer this one at http://somalinet.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=


but u did not READ IT Arrow Arrow don't waist my time Arrow Arrow am out Arrow

User avatar
dhuusa_deer
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 8152
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Canada

Postby dhuusa_deer » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:36 am

Somalisizz,

always arab avatars, are you sure you're somali and AFRICAN? Confused

btw: i'm going to start a thread about contradictions in the quran. how'd you like 'em apples now?

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:53 am

No she's Arab, she just calls herself Somali. There is no way that a Somali woman could be such a b!tch!

User avatar
SoMaLiSiZz
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: {{ Ard Allah }}
Contact:

Postby SoMaLiSiZz » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:51 am

DD I am Arab don't u know >> Somali Arab Very Happy AKA >> MaliArab

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:01 am

Somali Arab? Ahhhh like Rer Xamer? Are you Asharaf? Why am I asking, I don't really care. You're nuts!

User avatar
SoMaLiSiZz
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 2079
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: {{ Ard Allah }}
Contact:

Postby SoMaLiSiZz » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:19 am

and guess what I got 10 more >>> Contradiction

Contradiction #61
How did Judas die? (a) After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). (b) After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18).

Contradiction #62
Why is the field called "Field of Blood"? (a) Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8). (b) Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19).

Contradiction #63
Who is a ransom for whom? (a) "The Son of Man came . . . to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). " . . . Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all . . . " (1 Timothy 2:5-6). (b) "The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright" (Proverbs 21:18).

Contradiction #64
Is the law of Moses useful? (a) Yes. "All scripture is . . . profitable . . ." (2 Timothy 3:16). (b) No. ". . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness . . . " (Hebrews 7:18).

Contradiction #65
What was the exact wording on the cross? (a) "This is Jesus the King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:37). (b) "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26) © "This is the King of the Jews" (Luke 23:38). (d) "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" (John 19:19).

Contradiction #66
Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist? (a) Yes (Matthew 14:5). (b) No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20).

Contradiction #67
Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve? (a) Thaddaeus (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19). (b) Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke's gospel (Luke 6:12-16).

Contradiction #68
Jesus saw a man sitting at the tax collector's office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name? (a) Matthew (Matthew 9:9). (b) Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27).

#69
Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after? (a) After (Mark 14:12-17). (b) Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 13:1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate's judgement hall because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgement was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14).

Contradiction #70
Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion? (a) Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42). (b) No. (John 12:27).

Steeler [Crawler2]
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 12405
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm

Postby Steeler [Crawler2] » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:04 am

You're still nuts!

Kamal35
SomaliNet Heavyweight
SomaliNet Heavyweight
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Spain
Contact:

Postby Kamal35 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:30 pm

I'm just waiting... tick tock tick tock...

intellex
SomaliNet Super
SomaliNet Super
Posts: 6226
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:33 am
Location: behind you

Postby intellex » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:53 pm

[quote="Kamal35"]I'm just waiting... tick tock tick tock...[/quote]


boooom watch out for alhamaz bihind your hairy ars


OUR SPONSOR: LOGIN TO HIDE

Hello, Has your question been answered on this page? We hope yes. If not, you can start a new thread and post your question(s). It is free to join. You can also search our over a million pages (just scroll up and use our site-wide search box) or browse the forums.

  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General - General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: nnjrewzas112 and 20 guests