SomaliNet Forums

My assumptions are not baseless. They are seen through history and the repetition of history in the Horn of Africa.

The little clan states, the little maamuls around are just a reflection of how Somalis used to be BEFORE colonialism. In many ways, the aftermath of the state collapse is just a return back to tradition, a tradition that has no sense of nation at all.

Somalis are not meant to be in one state and have proven in the past twenty years this is not possible at all. The greed and self interested are part of the clannish psyche that has forever been enclaved in Somali history.

And in general, Somalis just suck at politics.

Arcade, the Sayid was NOT, I repeat NOT fighting for "PAN SOMALI" hood. It was just to fight and kick the white man off of his land and he was successful at it too

Murax, you miss the point.

The fact that Somalis have never had a single kingdom to span the whole of Somalis is precisely the reason why it is taking us longer than most to adapt to the concept of Nationalism.

However if you look back you will realise that there was a beginning to ever kingdom that has ever existed. They didn't spring up from nowhere. Therefore the point here is that in the living world there is no indefinitely static, frozen people or place. We will eventually get to the point of the start of a kingdom. Instead of wasting your energy concentrating on the problem i.e. we've never had a kingdom like the ancient Egyptians and therefore don't have a country like Egypt, use your mental space instead to think about why the ancient Egyptians formed those kingdoms, what's the missing piece that Somalia just does not have. If it's being nomads that is the issue, how can it be overcome.

Please don't result to blaming qabiil as a system, when everything else fails, it's what technically has your back. How do you now move on to a situation where all else doesn't fail? When that happens, qabiil stops becoming the solution and thus being blamed as a problem.

My assumptions are not baseless. They are seen through history and the repetition of history in the Horn of Africa.

The little clan states, the little maamuls around are just a reflection of how Somalis used to be BEFORE colonialism. In many ways, the aftermath of the state collapse is just a return back to tradition, a tradition that has no sense of nation at all.

Somalis are not meant to be in one state and have proven in the past twenty years this is not possible at all. The greed and self interested are part of the clannish psyche that has forever been enclaved in Somali history.

And in general, Somalis just suck at politics.

Arcade, the Sayid was NOT, I repeat NOT fighting for "PAN SOMALI" hood. It was just to fight and kick the white man off of his land and he was successful at it too

Like I keep telling you, having many small, tribal bodies in place is how England, Scotland, Wales and N. Irelands came to be the United Kingdom. The UK didn't rise up from the sea with Queen Elizabeth and the parliament ready to govern and serve. Developing a country and a system that works for a people takes time. Why are you denying that right to Somalia?

Because he is an American. Fah does not feel Somali. He feels American. The kid is very negative when it comes to Somalia's Somalis. Dhaqan Celis for Fah.

Murax, you miss the point.

The fact that Somalis have never had a single kingdom to span the whole of Somalis is precisely the reason why it is taking us longer than most to adapt to the concept of Nationalism.

However if you look back you will realise that there was a beginning to ever kingdom that has ever existed. They didn't spring up from nowhere. Therefore the point here is that in the living world there is no indefinitely static, frozen people or place. We will eventually get to the point of the start of a kingdom. Instead of wasting your energy concentrating on the problem i.e. we've never had a kingdom like the ancient Egyptians and therefore don't have a country like Egypt, use your mental space instead to think about why the ancient Egyptians formed those kingdoms, what's the missing piece that Somalia just does not have. If it's being nomads that is the issue, how can it be overcome.

Please don't result to blaming qabiil as a system, when everything else fails, it's what technically has your back. How do you now move on to a situation where all else doesn't fail? When that happens, qabiil stops becoming the solution and thus being blamed as a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we cannot or will not change, Allah knows what will happen. About how I think Nations, and civilizations before us formed was due to the fact that they realized the crucial importance of having central authority, even if You do not like each other. They understood compramise and that You have to give and take. They understood tolerance and acceptance in that You may have different ethnic origins but have to work together for the greater, common good. These elements of rationale sadly is missing from Somalis in My opinion which is extremely dissapointing. How can one not be fatalistic as a Somali when We haven't learned today, what other societies learned thousands of years ago? Are we that dumb? Each clan/group thinks they can succeed by trampling the other not realizing that all its gonna do is make sure nobody wins. There is just no excuse either You slice it. Even post WW2 there were a lot of Countries that were colonized where the border mappings left by the Europeans were screwed up intentionaly on purpose to create future wars. A lot of these societies didn't fall for the trap and agreed to work together so everyone can live in prosperity. In Rwanda Hutus and Tutsis after killing millions of each other agreed to work together. In Yemen North and South Yemen merged and worked together. In Ghana You had the same thing with the Ashantis, Gah's, Fantis.


About clan and when I mentioned it about Somalis, I'll bring examples You know all too well. Take the TFG for example. While it is nothing more than a little mafia of warlords it is a perfect microcosm of the Somali clan/cult mentality that triumphes over the Nationalism/Nationhood one. At any given time You will find a subset of members who are the biggest trumpet blowers, cheerleaders of it saying how "Government is better than no Government...We have to start somewhere..this is a step in the right direction..." A little while later You will find the same members become antagonists of it, why did something change? No the President/PM/Cabinet resign or leave and new ones from different clans come and that is enough for them to leave the whole "Government is better than no Government" platform. Principality, core values and a collective mindset is virtually absent amongst Somalis. Can they develop it? Maybe, but it is extremely unlikely in My opinion. Somalia in the last 20 years, has gotten dumber not smarter.

fah runta ombo sheegay. he is not emotional attached to somali or his supposed tribal land. so he just taking the truth.

FAH1223

The Darwiishes were the most diverse group of their era, much like Al-Shabab is today. All other groups were organized as clans the Darwish weren't, thats how they were able to establish themselves from the Coasts of North all the way to South. The Sayid's struggle was a pan-Somali effort and thats what every history book regards his effort as.

No need to destroy Ancient artifacts when protesting against your country government

Have you looked in the mirror, at least they have something to protest about unlike some people who haven't had a government the last two decades.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we cannot or will not change, Allah knows what will happen. About how I think Nations, and civilizations before us formed was due to the fact that they realized the crucial importance of having central authority, even if You do not like each other. They understood compramise and that You have to give and take. They understood tolerance and acceptance in that You may have different ethnic origins but have to work together for the greater, common good. These elements of rationale sadly is missing from Somalis in My opinion which is extremely dissapointing. How can one not be fatalistic as a Somali when We haven't learned today, what other societies learned thousands of years ago? Are we that dumb? Each clan/group thinks they can succeed by trampling the other not realizing that all its gonna do is make sure nobody wins. There is just no excuse either You slice it. Even post WW2 there were a lot of Countries that were colonized where the border mappings left by the Europeans were screwed up intentionaly on purpose to create future wars. A lot of these societies didn't fall for the trap and agreed to work together so everyone can live in prosperity. In Rwanda Hutus and Tutsis after killing millions of each other agreed to work together. In Yemen North and South Yemen merged and worked together. In Ghana You had the same thing with the Ashantis, Gah's, Fantis.


About clan and when I mentioned it about Somalis, I'll bring examples You know all too well. Take the TFG for example. While it is nothing more than a little mafia of warlords it is a perfect microcosm of the Somali clan/cult mentality that triumphes over the Nationalism/Nationhood one. At any given time You will find a subset of members who are the biggest trumpet blowers, cheerleaders of it saying how "Government is better than no Government...We have to start somewhere..this is a step in the right direction..." A little while later You will find the same members become antagonists of it, why did something change? No the President/PM/Cabinet resign or leave and new ones from different clans come and that is enough for them to leave the whole "Government is better than no Government" platform. Principality, core values and a collective mindset is virtually absent amongst Somalis. Can they develop it? Maybe, but it is extremely unlikely in My opinion. Somalia in the last 20 years, has gotten dumber not smarter.

To be a wanderer is to never settle and to never settle is to never think beyond your current meal and to never think beyond your present is to never compromise for the benefit of your future. Most of Somalia's problems are caused and exacerbated by the wandering tribes who constantly impose themselves on others. Being a nomad is nothing to be proud of. A lof of the non-nomadic Somalis have lived in peace for a very long time even before the colonial powers, they had trade, they had education and they had a lifestyle that allowed development. Somalis haven't become dumber, they've just given more power to the dumb.

FAH1223,

Wikipedia definition of Pan-Somalism : "Pan-Somalism refers to the vision of unifying these territories as a single Somali nation."

The Sayyid (and his multi-clan army) fought the Ethiopians, the Italians, the British and the clans that aided them to unite the Somali nation, free from foreign rule, under the Dervish State. That's it. Having said that, all nationalisms are reactions to other nationalisms (i.e. Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism ), but your wrong to say the Somali nation emerged as a reaction to the white man, just like people are wrong to say Palestinians only became a nation when the Zionist Jews arrived in Palestine.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we cannot or will not change, Allah knows what will happen. About how I think Nations, and civilizations before us formed was due to the fact that they realized the crucial importance of having central authority, even if You do not like each other. They understood compramise and that You have to give and take. They understood tolerance and acceptance in that You may have different ethnic origins but have to work together for the greater, common good. These elements of rationale sadly is missing from Somalis in My opinion which is extremely dissapointing. How can one not be fatalistic as a Somali when We haven't learned today, what other societies learned thousands of years ago? Are we that dumb? Each clan/group thinks they can succeed by trampling the other not realizing that all its gonna do is make sure nobody wins. There is just no excuse either You slice it. Even post WW2 there were a lot of Countries that were colonized where the border mappings left by the Europeans were screwed up intentionaly on purpose to create future wars. A lot of these societies didn't fall for the trap and agreed to work together so everyone can live in prosperity. In Rwanda Hutus and Tutsis after killing millions of each other agreed to work together. In Yemen North and South Yemen merged and worked together. In Ghana You had the same thing with the Ashantis, Gah's, Fantis.


About clan and when I mentioned it about Somalis, I'll bring examples You know all too well. Take the TFG for example. While it is nothing more than a little mafia of warlords it is a perfect microcosm of the Somali clan/cult mentality that triumphes over the Nationalism/Nationhood one. At any given time You will find a subset of members who are the biggest trumpet blowers, cheerleaders of it saying how "Government is better than no Government...We have to start somewhere..this is a step in the right direction..." A little while later You will find the same members become antagonists of it, why did something change? No the President/PM/Cabinet resign or leave and new ones from different clans come and that is enough for them to leave the whole "Government is better than no Government" platform. Principality, core values and a collective mindset is virtually absent amongst Somalis. Can they develop it? Maybe, but it is extremely unlikely in My opinion. Somalia in the last 20 years, has gotten dumber not smarter.

To be a wanderer is to never settle and to never settle is to never think beyond your current meal and to never think beyond your present is to never compromise for the benefit of your future. Most of Somalia's problems are caused and exacerbated by the wandering tribes who constantly impose themselves on others. Being a nomad is nothing to be proud of. A lof of the non-nomadic Somalis have lived in peace for a very long time even before the colonial powers, they had trade, they had education and they had a lifestyle that allowed development. Somalis haven't become dumber, they've just given more power to the dumb.

I agree actually. The nomadic lifestyle is actually a very primitive mindset that is toxic to Governance. The concepts of my tribe vs tribe, clan vs clan, cousin vis cousin and ultimately brother vs brother goes agains the all for one, one for all mindset needed to create a cohesive nation. Somalis have this mindset and actually use it as bragging rights. As for Somalis being non nomadic, the truth is Somalis have not Somalia's historical cities. Mogaidshu was not founded by Somalis per se, but by Persian, Arab, etc. merchants. Seylac was founded by Ottomons. Marka, Baraawe were founded by Omani Sultanates. Somalis were more on the hinterland, interior and were primairly nomadic. Now there may have been pockets here or there who lived in these cities, but I'm talking about as a collective whole they were nomads.


I also agree with You on Your point that, Somalis decendence into ignorance was their own doing, and certainly was not the fault of anyone. Really My only frusturation, pessimism and fatalistic views towards Somalia is that I feel that We are not humbled enough, and do not seem like We really learned lessons the past 20 years. The first thing thats incumbant upon us is to realize our problems, stop making excuses and be honest with ourselves and our situation but we do not seem to be close to that level. Maybe another 20 years.

Mashallah, FAH has graduated from being a self-hating Hawiye to a self-hating Somali

Mashallah, FAH has graduated from being a self-hating Hawiye to a self-hating Somali

Abdiwahab252,


How u doing brother? Long time no hear from the DMV resident

Murax,

I am here in Skinnistan among the 3 knuckleheads: Jabertis, Hutus and Idoors. Savages, complete savages. They share so much in common yet think they are different. On the good side, I am finally weaning off my bad habits: fast women, fast cars, and fast cash.

Lord knows, I needed this rehab even though I am shidding thrice a day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we cannot or will not change, Allah knows what will happen. About how I think Nations, and civilizations before us formed was due to the fact that they realized the crucial importance of having central authority, even if You do not like each other. They understood compramise and that You have to give and take. They understood tolerance and acceptance in that You may have different ethnic origins but have to work together for the greater, common good. These elements of rationale sadly is missing from Somalis in My opinion which is extremely dissapointing. How can one not be fatalistic as a Somali when We haven't learned today, what other societies learned thousands of years ago? Are we that dumb? Each clan/group thinks they can succeed by trampling the other not realizing that all its gonna do is make sure nobody wins. There is just no excuse either You slice it. Even post WW2 there were a lot of Countries that were colonized where the border mappings left by the Europeans were screwed up intentionaly on purpose to create future wars. A lot of these societies didn't fall for the trap and agreed to work together so everyone can live in prosperity. In Rwanda Hutus and Tutsis after killing millions of each other agreed to work together. In Yemen North and South Yemen merged and worked together. In Ghana You had the same thing with the Ashantis, Gah's, Fantis.


About clan and when I mentioned it about Somalis, I'll bring examples You know all too well. Take the TFG for example. While it is nothing more than a little mafia of warlords it is a perfect microcosm of the Somali clan/cult mentality that triumphes over the Nationalism/Nationhood one. At any given time You will find a subset of members who are the biggest trumpet blowers, cheerleaders of it saying how "Government is better than no Government...We have to start somewhere..this is a step in the right direction..." A little while later You will find the same members become antagonists of it, why did something change? No the President/PM/Cabinet resign or leave and new ones from different clans come and that is enough for them to leave the whole "Government is better than no Government" platform. Principality, core values and a collective mindset is virtually absent amongst Somalis. Can they develop it? Maybe, but it is extremely unlikely in My opinion. Somalia in the last 20 years, has gotten dumber not smarter.

To be a wanderer is to never settle and to never settle is to never think beyond your current meal and to never think beyond your present is to never compromise for the benefit of your future. Most of Somalia's problems are caused and exacerbated by the wandering tribes who constantly impose themselves on others. Being a nomad is nothing to be proud of. A lof of the non-nomadic Somalis have lived in peace for a very long time even before the colonial powers, they had trade, they had education and they had a lifestyle that allowed development. Somalis haven't become dumber, they've just given more power to the dumb.

Of all the lands on earth to pick as their home why did the ancient somalis have to pick the driest? If you are constantly looking for food and water to feed your lifstock and people you're never gonna settle down. If you never settle down and form an agricultural community you will never be able to form a government for the poeple. If you can't form authority, security, rules and be able to secure food and water, you will never have a civilization with doctors, engineers, soldiers etc. The problem with somalis is that they picked a land that made sure they wouldn't be able to establish the fundamentals a civilization needs. What are the similarites between the Mesopatamians, ancient egyptians, chinese, indians, greeks and the romans? They all have abundant resources in terms of rivers and fertile farmland. They can afford to feed a whole nation not just a small clan or subclan. They have enough resources to devote their skills and efforts to have engineers, doctors, scientists etc. instead of constantly looking for fresh pastures and water.