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Really interesting article

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gurey25
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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:35 pm

I was asking the question, why do we needs banks anyway.
They are a dangerous parasite that should be eliminated.
Successful countries have tamed the banks and made sure they are well behaved pets that work for the benefit of society not the vampire elite.

The best examples are the asian tigers with Japan in the lead, in Japan the Government directed all major investments, the major corporations and their keiretsu
Like Mistubishi and Sumitomo were allowed to develop gigantic monsterous banks within their structures,as long they followed the plans set by the Ministry of International Trade and Industry.

The korean chaebols like the Kias, the Hyundai and Daewoos were not allowed to own their own massive banks by the korean government.
The government in korea made sure the major banks were under government control.

The same with Singapore, Malaysia and Taiwan.

The same successful pattern was followed by other former developing countries..
Finland which was a third world country at independence in 1918, industrialized in only 22 years and was a fully industrialized country by the time of the winter war in 1940.. an amazing rate of development as fast as south Korea and Singapore.


Banks are dangerous creatures, are parastitic vampires that will suck a country dry, inhibit development and basically destroy it,
some countries have attempted to tame them and make them well behaved pets that work for the benefit of the country, but this is dangerous.
Why would you allow a rotwieler, or a tamed lion into your house to play with your kids...

they should be eliminated..

when you eliminate interest and go back to the natural mode of money,
you can use more islamic financial vehicles to provide large investments.

ofcourse as we are focusing on development we should not concern ourselves on how we would finance nuclear power plants or steel mills.
We should think smaller first, farm improvements, irrigation, dams, funding locally based small industries and housing.
for the big ticket items we may not have the choice and we will be forced to borrow money from traditional sources.
A developing country should avoid all debts as much as possible, they should go for joint ventures, or BOT schemes (build Operate,transfer) for major infrastructure plans... they should also try to go for the new "semi islamic" sources from todays so called Islamic banks.
They are nearly identical to western banks, they both depend on interest, but because the Islamic banks avoid speculation and depend on actual production and real good for their business, they are close to islamic ideals as we can get in this kaafir dominated world and we should out of dharuura use them.
Last edited by gurey25 on Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:37 pm

Hmm u r a communist :o

Finance helps bringing money to those who will invest! remember the oromo woman we took as example!
the finance will help her have access to my money 100 DOLLAR

Gurey, deep in yourself u r a communist :up:

You make me remember one of my communist teacher who always used to give as this example:

Imagine an entrepreneur:
he invests money and produces some commodity and sells it and make profit;
he always used to ask us where comes that profit from!
he used to say calculate oll the cost! raw material, workers salary..

His answer was the only way the profit comes is that the he hasnt paid the workers wat he should pay them!!! thus the profit, the plus value, is the exploitation of the worker.

On this lets continue tomorrow!

I will highly appreciate if u advise some books on ancient egyptian economy, or any interest free economy

B.
:lol:
communism and neo-liberalism are both ridiculous nonsense , fairy tales really
socialism is deeply flawed.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby LiquidHYDROGEN » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:44 pm

I was asking the question, why do we needs banks anyway.
They are a dangerous parasite that should be eliminated.
Successful countries have tamed the banks and made sure they are well behaved pets that work for the benefit of society not the vampire elite.

The best examples are the asian tigers with Japan in the lead, in Japan the Government directed all major investments, the major corporations and their keiretsu
Like Mistubishi and Sumitomo were allowed to develop gigantic monsterous banks within their structures,as long they followed the plans set by the Ministry of International Trade and Industry.

The korean chaebols like the Kias, the Hyundai and Daewoos were not allowed to own their own massive banks by the korean government.
The government in korea made sure the major banks were under government control.

The same with Singapore, Malaysia and Taiwan.

The same successful pattern was followed by other former developing countries..
Finland which was a third world country at independence in 1918, industrialized in only 22 years and was a fully industrialized country by the time of the winter war in 1940.. an amazing rate of development as fast as south Korea and Singapore.


Banks are dangerous creatures, are parastitic vampires that will suck a country dry, inhibit development and basically destroy it,
some countries have attempted to tame them and make them well behaved pets that work for the benefit of the country, but this is dangerous.
Why would you allow a rotwieler, or a tamed lion into your house to play with your kids...

they should be eliminated..

when you eliminate interest and go back to the natural mode of money,
you can use more islamic financial vehicles to provide large investments.

ofcourse as we are focusing on development we should not concern ourselves on how we would finance nuclear power plants or steel mills.
We should think smaller first, farm improvements, irrigation, dams, funding locally based small industries and housing.
for the big ticket items we may not have the choice and we will be forced to borrow money from traditional sources.
A developing country should avoid all debts as much as possible, they should go for joint ventures, or BOT schemes (build Operate,transfer) for major infrastructure plans... they should also try to go for the new "semi islamic" sources from todays so called Islamic banks.
They are nearly identical to western banks, they both depend on interest, but because the Islamic banks avoid speculation and depend on actual production and real good for their business, they are close to islamic ideals as we can get in this kaafir dominated world and we should out of dharuura use them.
Interesting views. Do you study economics? How do you know so much on the subject?

Japan, by the way has been in economic stagnation for the last 10-20 years, so it might not be a good example. Even though it's a relatively properous nation, it's had essentially 0% growth rate for over a decade. Interestingly enough, one of the reasons why is because japanese people don't spend enough, they are constantly saving, or "hoarding" if you like, their wealth. Also another interesting reason is because of the huge conglomerates or "keiretsu" which monopolise and corner the markets which make it virtually impossible for other small-scale to medium-scale to get a piece of the pie. Interestingly, the South Korean government is learning from the mistakes of the japanese and are allowing smaller businesses to thrive at the same time ats the bigger "chaebols". That's why the koreans are set to surpass the japanese, GDP-wise, in the near future.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:17 pm

no i dont study economics, you do not need to be an economist to understand whats going on.
Most of the economics taught at universities is mostly ideological bullshit, and those who get all the attention and the big bucks are those who do the mathemetical modelling and wierd outerworldy concepts that have no bearing on the real world.

90% is common sense the rest is technical jargon.

Im a student of history, history touches on everything which is what i love about it.
to fully understand history you have to look at the past from every angle, from culture and society, the economic issues, the wars and politics
even down to the fashions and sexual mores :lol: and climate environmetal conditions..
its not just this happened on 1492 etc etc etc..
:lol: :lol: :lol:

im not an expert, and i encourage all non -experts and even those who think they are experts to dive in and enjoy.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby LiquidHYDROGEN » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:22 am

no i dont study economics, you do not need to be an economist to understand whats going on.
Most of the economics taught at universities is mostly ideological bullshit, and those who get all the attention and the big bucks are those who do the mathemetical modelling and wierd outerworldy concepts that have no bearing on the real world.

90% is common sense the rest is technical jargon.

Im a student of history, history touches on everything which is what i love about it.
to fully understand history you have to look at the past from every angle, from culture and society, the economic issues, the wars and politics
even down to the fashions and sexual mores :lol: and climate environmetal conditions..
its not just this happened on 1492 etc etc etc..
:lol: :lol: :lol:

im not an expert, and i encourage all non -experts and even those who think they are experts to dive in and enjoy.
True. I've noticed that the economics taught in academia is very ideological. Different institutions have different beliefs. There are so many schools of thought. You're either a keynesian, a hayekian, marxist, a populist, a libertine etc. It greatly reminds me of the countless schools of thought of philosophy and religion. It's no longer about common sense but what - "madhab" if you like - you follow. I'm also an avid history buff - although I'm more interested in classical Rome, greece and the Islamic golden age.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby LiquidHYDROGEN » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:51 am

Gurey, are you suggesting going back to the gold Dinar and silver dirham? Wouldn't that reak havoc on a country that want's to be industrialised? I thought if you wanted to be a manufacturing country you would have to have weak currency like china or india?

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby Shirib » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:53 am

bareento,

Do u know the longest ayat in the Quran deals with an economic issue?

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:18 am

Gurey, are you suggesting going back to the gold Dinar and silver dirham? Wouldn't that reak havoc on a country that want's to be industrialised? I thought if you wanted to be a manufacturing country you would have to have weak currency like china or india?


Thats is only if you following the export oriented model, its not the only model.
The gold dinar and silver dirham is promoted by this sufi group the almurabitun.
Interesting group, ive met one of their main guys a spanish revert called Umar vadillo, coincedently he lives in jumierah dubai.

I disagree with them about currency though, i think they are too rigid and unimaginative, they are however spot on about the rest of their economic policies.

Thye are wierd but i think they are kool, a sufi tariqa that focuses on economics and is very succcessfull in dacwa.
They have opened a zawiya in chiapas mexico and they have already converted thousands of native mexicans to islam.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby LiquidHYDROGEN » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:52 am

Gurey, are you suggesting going back to the gold Dinar and silver dirham? Wouldn't that reak havoc on a country that want's to be industrialised? I thought if you wanted to be a manufacturing country you would have to have weak currency like china or india?


Thats is only if you following the export oriented model, its not the only model.
The gold dinar and silver dirham is promoted by this sufi group the almurabitun.
Interesting group, ive met one of their main guys a spanish revert called Umar vadillo, coincedently he lives in jumierah dubai.

I disagree with them about currency though, i think they are too rigid and unimaginative, they are however spot on about the rest of their economic policies.

Thye are wierd but i think they are kool, a sufi tariqa that focuses on economics and is very succcessfull in dacwa.
They have opened a zawiya in chiapas mexico and they have already converted thousands of native mexicans to islam.

What other models are there to follow? And I was interested when you said that we should establish a grass-root economy that is neither dependent nor subject to the world economy and it's control mechanisms like the IMF. What did you mean exactly?

You said that you could explain any economy in the world that plays by IMF rules, what about india and china?

Lol at sufis. It depends what kind of sufism they follow.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:49 am

http://www.transaction.net/money/cc/cc01.html

this is a good summery , you can follow the links in my first posts..
for more details.

oh and another kool article..

http://birchassets.com/#/the-guernsey-e ... 4533857530

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby FAH1223 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:59 am

:up:

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby FAH1223 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:07 pm

uppin

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby Jaidi » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:23 pm

Gurey you are a very astute thinker, especially for this forum. But you are advocating a national development model as the way forward( rightfully) and denounce neoliberalism, but then advocate for regionalism, these two concepts do not reconcile with each other. Its the 21st century and Somali nature notwisthanding, there is zero leverage associated with regionalism, you will get violated by capital interests even easier than you would otherwise. Show me a single example of a state that has developed adequately without strong govt, state intervention etc. The state is the only bulwark against global capital, its the only thing that can hold some sort of leverage, and coherently manage/direct any priorities.

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby gurey25 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:27 pm

Still interested in the thread FAH?
i relish the oppuritunity to rant once in a while, let off a little steam.
Qabiil talk is boooring...

a continuation of my previous rant and an answer to abdi-ismail about japan.

Took me a long time but ive come to realize that the japanese have been conning the rest of the world for a very long time.
People talk about the Lost Decades, when Japan stopped growing quickly and had something like 1% growth with near zero inflation and near zero interest rates for the past 20 years.
This was coming down from the 1980's when japan was the big bad unstopable monster that would overtake the US by 2000.

The truth is after a minor recession they recovered quickly in the mid 90's and everything else has been going to plan for them since then.
The have increased their manufacturing exports, and they have captured practically every last technological niche out there and have sucked the US and to a lesser extent the EU dry out of whats left in advanced scientific know how.
Since the 90's they have established chock holds on the entire worlds manufacturing of advanced technology and they spend nearly as much on basic research as the Americans and are more efficient as they get out more patents and research papers from every dollar spent.

e.g. NAND memory, flash memory chips, chipsets and more important the machines responsible for building silicon wafers are called Steppers.
There are only 3 companies in the world that make them now, 2 are Japanese with 70% of the worlds market and the other is a Dutch company.
Galenium arsnide chips is another are dominated by japan, and they are essential for telecom products and millitary electronics.
The US cannot build their F-22 and many many more advanced weapons systems without Japanese sub contractors like Toshiba for example and the American companies that used to build them have all been allowed to die because of the idioting belief in the " Free market" :lol: .

The japanese believe in looking less threatening than you really are so as to put your enemies at ease and allow them to see you as weak till you have gained all the advantages.
They have been doing this since meiji restoration 1878 to a small extent but when they got stronger and totally fuked up the chinese and Russians it went all to their heads and they messed up in the end.
Since 1945 they have been following the script, which is to appear to be a weak and vulnerable puppet state or ally of the US.
They have used this successfully to keep geetting enormous amounts of US aid.
They have used this to open up the US economy to their trade, giving them access that other allies like the UK or Germany do not get.
They have even used the US since the 1960's to force the Europeans to open up Europe to them.
and all this time they have sent armies of scientists and engineers to buy, steal and bribe away as much technology as they could get.
Their weakness and vulnerable and dependent status and their clever use of american bases as an example gives them the same level of access to advance US military tech that Isreal has.
This is 2011 and there is little left int he US or Europe to steal or buy, the Japanese finally have all they need or want and they are now the most advanced country in the world technologically.

Another important tactic is profitting from the yen carry trade.
since japanese interest rates have been close to 1% for nearly 20 years people have been borrowing in yen and then investing in high interst bearing bonds in currencies like the australian dollar, sotuh african Rand
and Brazilian real for example which is 13% and used to be as high as 20% in the past.
Ofcourse this is unstable because when the yen rises it will wipe out all your profits and even put you into loss.
The real heavy wieght investors in the world do not follow the hype and after doing their own analysis they come to know that japan is not as sick economically as previously thought but is actually much much stronger than the world realizes, this is why they invest in the yen and the yen rises.
The japanese government uses propaganda to deliberately talk down the strengths of the Japanese economy to keep the yen weak, and to keep exports high.
They give preferential insider information to certain influential journalists and wall street bankers to warn them of future rises of the yen, giving them gaurenteed profits in exchange for
spreading lies and disinformation about the japanese economy.

The whole world buys it, that japan is overdebted and is stuck in a low growth cycle for ever, and that the japanese are weak and not a threat to anyone.
But the reality is that they are heavilly indepbted to themselves not to the world, they have a higher precentage of debt to GDP than Greece or Italy today but the difference is that the debt is internal.
They can write it off whenever it suits them, they do not owe anybody any money, infact allot of the world owes them money and they huge reserves.
They have also mastered every area of technology even previously untouchable areas like Telecom, and Aerospace that the US and EU had a monopoly on.
People dont realize that boieng is 30% owned by the Japanese and nobody knows how much of the work done on the new 787 was done by the Japanese subcontractors!!!
People do not realize that the F-22 stealth fighters avionics and radar will not work without companies like Toshiba, and 3 others .

People do not realize that this low growth, low interest, low inflation economy actually suits Japan quite well with its ageing and shrinking population.
With robotics they expect to keep the current productivity in manufacturing they have today, even with an ageing population.
They are already moving into the new economy, the post finance economy, and are already pioneers in restructuring the economy to survive a worldwide economic collapse.
They are already well on their way with this strategy, and it involves decentralizing japan into dozens of little singapore sized entities that are nearly self sufficient in manufacturing.
They are also pioneers of community currencies and complementary currencies.
http://www.lietaer.com/2010/01/compleme ... pan-today/

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Re: Really interesting article

Postby Jaidi » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:39 pm

Gurey read my post and answer the questions. I do not understand when bright minds like you support delusional regional talk. I understand it as a building block for stabiltiy and peace, but we are talking long term development here.


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