The Famine as tool of war

[udun]

So-called TFG gets it protection from AMISOM, and due to this protection, it can't refuse orders from AMISOM. Not only that but it can't create viable security forces due to lack of funds while AMISOM is receiving billions of dollars of support including salary, equipments, training, and encouragements.

There is also an arms embargo on Somalia where if there are countries, who are genuinely want to help Somalia, can't provide that help due to the arms embargo.

Any dime coming to the TFG has to also go through an account setup by UN Security Council through the UNDP agency where any decision to withdraw funds has to be agreed by the corrupt UN officials. We all know what that means, that is, if $1 million dollars is going to be spent in Somalia, the TFG leaders would have to agree to sign a paper that states at least $10 million dollars.

The leaders of the so-called opposition can travel the world when no one arrest them when in fact they are listed as a terrorist organization. That is what Wikileaks published. The TFG can't make any agreement with a group listed as a terrorist organization when at the sametime those opposition leaders know nothing will happen to them.

Ok educate me how in an environment like that can the TFG make any kind of concessions to the the opposition or at least be an effective and accountable government? You can dance around the question but it is clear to every one that the lack of a sustainable peace and a viable government in Somalia starts from the wester capitals and end up in western capitals. No one should have any illusions that the west have derailed and denied the return of a viable Somali goverment.

[Voltage]

Hassan Dahir Aweys is on the FBI terrorist wanted list, so is Abu Mansuur/Raxanweyn, Abu Mansur al-Amriki, Godane, Zaylici, etc. What incentive do they have for peace? They have zero incentive; the chaos allows them to exist. Let's be a little bit more realistic.

[James Dahl]

You could say the same of al-Shabaab, how can they negotiate an end to the war while the TFG is supported by countries at war with a cross section of the Islamic World.

And we have debated this for 5 years now. 5 years!

Even if the TFG falls another will be created in its place, and even if Shabaab falls apart another will take their place, and the war will continue forever.

Both sides need to just put aside their absolutes and their ultimatums and their preconditions and negotiate a peace treaty, then tell Uganda and Burundi and Kenya and Ethiopia and the CIA agents in Mogadishu airport to all get lost.

Being on a terrorist list isn't the end of the world, The ANC and Nelson Mandela were on the USA's terrorist list for years, in fact the USA only recently took the ANC off their list of terrorist organizations.

[Enemy_Of_Mad_Mullah]

That would be ideal laakin tfg has no say in the matter they are simply being used

[NoAngst]

There is a disgusting thing going on right now and that is the use of the drought and famine in order to essentially starve the unwilling people of Somalia into submission.

I don't understand what you mean by the above. Who exactly is using drought as a weapon?

Where was this urgency in 2009 and 2010?

Because Al-Shabaab kicked out all aid agencies and declared Somalia as self-sufficient in food production. Many experts warned that this would lead to a tragedy of epic proportions but their warnings fell on deaf ears. We are merely seeing the consequences of AlShabaab's plunders.

As I said before, not a single Somali would have died in this famine had Alshabaab not expelled aid agencies. My proof/evidence for this claim? Niger - an overwhelmingly Islamic country that experienced severe food shortages but ultimately scaped the specter of famine because local authorities didn't expell/ban aid agencies. Even the 2006 drought in Somalia wasn't as bad as this precisely because there was no Alshabaab around back then. Aid agencies were allowed to distribute food in affected areas; therefore, severe famine was averted.


Attributing the causes of this famine to the ongoing "war" simply misdiagnosis the problem. There is hardly any war currently occuring in the famine affected regions. Even when there was some fighting/skirmishes in places like Hiiraan, Baay and Bakool, both Shabeelles and Jubba regions, those skirmishes were hardly of the extent that can disturb farming. In fact, most refugees reaching Kenyan camps are from "peaceful" Alshabaab controlled regions like Jubba. According to these refugees, they're fleeing Somalia for fear that there won't be enough food in Alshabaab controlled regions. Even refugees arriving in Xammar--most of them from Baay, Bakool and Shabeelle regions--cite the lack of rains not war as the reason for leaving their traditional lands.

[James Dahl]

The war fronts have been in the richest areas, the Jubba valley, Bay and Bakool and the Shabeelle. In peaceful times, people could ship food to other places or buy from other markets if food is scarce, and in peaceful times farmers are more secure in growing their crops (farming is a significant investment in money, time and labor). Somalia has more than enough arable land in rich areas to feed itself many times over.

The war has not brought the drought, but it has amplified its effects many times over.

[NoAngst]

The war fronts have been in the richest areas, the Jubba valley, Bay and Bakool and the Shabeelle. In peaceful times, people could ship food to other places or buy from other markets if food is scarce, and in peaceful times farmers are more secure in growing their crops (farming is a significant investment in money, time and labor). Somalia has more than enough arable land in rich areas to feed itself many times over.

The war has not brought the drought, but it has amplified its effects many times over.

The war certainly doesn't help matters but it is not the cause of this famine. And you're wrong to suggest Somali farmers can feed themselves and others. Somalia has been net food importer ever since the 1970s and that was at a time when Somalia's population was a fraction of what it is today. Somalia has the potential to be net food exporter since it has all the raw materials (sufficient prime farming land and water, close proximity to seaports for international export, enough famr laborers, etc) but lacks the investment and expertise required to fulfil that potential.

[Richfarax]

There is a disgusting thing going on right now and that is the use of the drought and famine in order to essentially starve the unwilling people of Somalia into submission.

The drought has been going on for almost 2 years now, and longer if you don't include the brief relief a few years ago this drought has been going on strong since about 2005, so cries of an emergency and a need for urgent action are incredibly hypocritical. Where was this urgency in 2009 and 2010? Calls for western assistance are empty, western aid never arrives where it is needed, it is stolen and embezzled and even then, insufficient even if it did make it to where it is needed.

The ONLY thing that can help the suffering people of Somalia is peace. Only peace.

The big-headed men of Somalia, their heads so swollen with pride that they are deaf to compromise, they are to blame and noone else.

AWSJ, al-Shabaab, Ethiopia, Kenya, TFG: End the damn war.

Wonderful astute analysis, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I agree entirely with you, you seem like an intelligent individual who differs from the crowd here.
Since the majority here listen to hear and say, and do not formulate their own sensible opinions.
I truly wish a solution is found and peace can be finally achieved. Insha’Allah.

[muslim-man]

The idea that Alshabab is not letting aid to go those in need is nonesense. I was watching BBC news earlier and a UNHCR worker in southern somalia said "Shabab is not stopping food intended for the starving people, bring the food and we will deliver to those in dire need".

[Richfarax]

The idea that Alshabab is not letting aid to go those in need is nonesense. I was watching BBC news earlier and a UNHCR worker in southern somalia said "Shabab is not stopping food intended for the starving people, bring the food and we will deliver to those in dire need".

Thank you.

[muslim-man]

richman

They say a hungry man is an angry man. do you think these starving people will let alshabab to stop the food intended for them? for how long will they keep them in the death camps that is south somalia? these have nothing to lose and would have revolted against the shabab long time ago walle

[Richfarax]

richman

They say a hungry man is an angry man. do you think these starving people will let alshabab to stop the food intended for them? for how long will they keep them in the death camps that is south somalia? these have nothing to lose and would have revolted against the shabab long time ago walle

100% true I am at times shocked to believe people latch to propaganda news and eat up every word of the free media. Do they not know they have a brain, to process what they hear and can make sensible opinions of their own? However when it is about the west or something similar, everybody seems to be Sherlock Holmes searching for a conspiracy theory and making wild deductions that are very unlikely to be true.
However to the contrary, with the whole al shabaab situation and this famine in particular, everything reported is believed. I think it may have to do with some deep rooted issue of looking for a bogeyman type figure to blame all of Somalia’s mess on.

It’s quite sad honestly to see this occur.

[XimanJaale]

I don't understand these ignorant somalis, the drought is happening in all of somalia however the only people suffering are people that are ruled under al-shabaab, are people ruled under ahlu sunna suffering?no wat about people ruled under tfg?no. Come on people and wake up! Its just sad that the WEAK people are fleeing, it was already predicted that they were gonna flee from al-shabaab. Yep my location says it all

[muslim-man]

[quote="Richfarax"][quote="muslim-man"]richman

They say a hungry man is an angry man. do you think these starving people will let alshabab to stop the food intended for them? for how long will they keep them in the death camps that is south somalia? these have nothing to lose and would have revolted against the shabab long time ago walle [/quote]
100% true I am at times shocked to believe people latch to propaganda news and eat up every word of the free media. Do they not know they have a brain, to process what they hear and can make sensible opinions of their own? However when it is about the west or something similar, everybody seems to be Sherlock Holmes searching for a conspiracy theory and making wild deductions that are very unlikely to be true.
However to the contrary, with the whole al shabaab situation and this famine in particular, everything reported is believed. I think it may have to do with some deep rooted issue of looking for a bogeyman type figure to blame all of Somalia’s mess on.

It’s quite sad honestly to see this occur.[/quote]

Today sections of the muslims are far worse than the propaganda machines of the west in condemning there muslim brothers (guilty or not).