SomaliNet Forums

The solution for the Somali people is to have mutliple countries like the Celtic people of Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales and provinces such as Britanny, Cornwall (known as the Celtic Nations).

Modern day Celts are composed of the inhabitants of the isle of Man, the Scots, Irish, Welsh, Bretons and Basques. Some include the Sami, but the connection is attenuated. Gaelic was their common language, which is still spoken in some small pockets here and there. The Druids were the Celtic priestly class. It was all tribal, broken up and separated by later invasions. The Welsh, Scots and both Northern and Southern Irish, as well as the Isle of Man, have their own national parliaments to this day.

So don't give me that 2400BC stuff.

Modern day Celts are composed of the inhabitants of the isle of Man, the Scots, Irish, Welsh, Bretons and Basques. Some include the Sami, but the connection is attenuated. Gaelic was their common language, which is still spoken in some small pockets here and there. The Druids were the Celtic priestly class. It was all tribal, broken up and separated by later invasions. The Welsh, Scots and both Northern and Southern Irish, as well as the Isle of Man, have their own national parliaments to this day.

So don't give me that 2400BC stuff.

You evade the question I posed earlier;

Tell us how you can equate somali tribes with the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Amish and Mormons?

Modern day Celts are composed of the inhabitants of the isle of Man, the Scots, Irish, Welsh, Bretons and Basques. Some include the Sami, but the connection is attenuated. Gaelic was their common language, which is still spoken in some small pockets here and there. The Druids were the Celtic priestly class. It was all tribal, broken up and separated by later invasions. The Welsh, Scots and both Northern and Southern Irish, as well as the Isle of Man, have their own national parliaments to this day.

So don't give me that 2400BC stuff.

You evade the question I posed earlier;

Tell us how you can equate somali tribes with the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Amish and Mormons?

This.

Welsh, Scots, NI and Isle of Man are in UK, therefore, part of UK government which is in London.

ROI are completely different topic as they wanted independence for non-tribal reasons and they got it.

Like I said, tribalism is outdated topic that has no place in today's world except some villages that are completely independent.

Sorry. I thought I was explaining away.

Try this:

Webster's Dictionary, definition 1, "tribe": " a group of persons, families or clans descended from a common ancestor and forming, together with their slaves, adopted strangers, etc. , a community."

Definition 3: "Any primitive or nomadic group of people of generally common ancestry, possessing common leadership.'

Intermarriage, community and leadership are the essential elements. Some religions function, or at least under certain circumstances function, more as tribes than do others. The Mormons were setting up a theocratic government in the state of Deseret when they were stopped by the US federal government. The organization itself is still very much there; Mormons still think of themselves as a people apart, and are tribal according to the above definitions.

The Amish are another people apart. They speak either antiquated English or an equally antiquated German. Their religious language is German. They have special dispensation from the government to leave school after the eighth grade and do not serve in the armed forces. They do not normally marry outside their own faith and are largely internally self-governing. This makes them tribal.

The Irish, Scots and Welch have nation-states, by definition tribal.

The individual Somali clans are tribes in the same senses: they share genetic makeup, have a common leadership and form a community. They are separate nation states because ( at least in the perceived male line) they do not share any of the essential elements that would allow them to unite under a tribal structure. That's why it has to be federation for the long haul.

Welsh, Scots, NI and Isle of Man are in UK, therefore, part of UK government which is in London.

ROI are completely different topic as they wanted independence for non-tribal reasons and they got it.

Like I said, tribalism is outdated topic that has no place in today's world except some villages that are completely independent.

Wales, Scotland, the Isle of Man and Northern Ireland all have national parliaments subject to the Crown, the same as the English Parliament. How does this make them less tribal?

In Ireland, the Catholic Celts finally got rid of the invading Protestant German yoke. What's not tribal about that?

You have the wrong definition of tribe and tribalism. It's all over the place in the West: It just doesn't come in the packages you're used to.

Welsh, Scots, NI and Isle of Man are in UK, therefore, part of UK government which is in London.

ROI are completely different topic as they wanted independence for non-tribal reasons and they got it.

Like I said, tribalism is outdated topic that has no place in today's world except some villages that are completely independent.

Wales, Scotland, the Isle of Man and Northern Ireland all have national parliaments subject to the Crown, the same as the English Parliament. How does this make them less tribal?

In Ireland, the Catholic Celts finally got rid of the invading Protestant German yoke. What's not tribal about that?

You have the wrong definition of tribe and tribalism. It's all over the place in the West: It just doesn't come in the packages you're used to.

It was because of religion, not tribal.

Again, you're talking about past, when tribalism is accepted as norm. Modern world doesn't even discriminate based on tribalism because they don't exist. Division between NI and ROI is again, due to religion. It's all about nationalism, and unfortunately, you cannot see the difference between nationalism and tribalism. Go to Scotland and ask SNP why they want to be independent of UK, they'll say they want their own parliament, and if you ask them why they want own parliament, they'll say because Scotland doesn't deserve to part of UK because of we love Scotland and hate being associated to England. There's nothing tribalism involved, only nationalism.

[quote="haxxor"
It was because of religion, not tribal.

Again, you're talking about past, when tribalism is accepted as norm. Modern world doesn't even discriminate based on tribalism because they don't exist. Division between NI and ROI is again, due to religion. It's all about nationalism, and unfortunately, you cannot see the difference between nationalism and tribalism. Go to Scotland and ask SNP why they want to be independent of UK, they'll say they want their own parliament, and if you ask them why they want own parliament, they'll say because Scotland doesn't deserve to part of UK because of we love Scotland and hate being associated to England. There's nothing tribalism involved, only nationalism.[/quote]

Is "Jew" a tribe, a kingdom or a religion? Do Jews often marry Catholics?

Nationalism is different from tribalism, how?

Tribes don't exist anymore? The Philippines has twenty one distinct languages. Not dialects, languages. Do you think the languages might indicate tribes?

Familiar with the Navajo, or the Tlingit or the Blackfoot or the Crow?

Didn't think so.

Sorry. I thought I was explaining away.

Try this:

Webster's Dictionary, definition 1, "tribe": " a group of persons, families or clans descended from a common ancestor and forming, together with their slaves, adopted strangers, etc. , a community."

Definition 3: "Any primitive or nomadic group of people of generally common ancestry, possessing common leadership.

Until Somalis either start seeing all Somalis as family or just their own immediate family like 3rd cousins max we'll continue having this tribalism.

Grant, if you go to Scotland, NI or Wales, and ask people what tribe they are, most of them will say "What?", "I'm gaelic", or "I'm [Inserts nationality here]". They do not know what the tribe really means and they do not make it an important thing, unlike us.

Also, according to your logic, whole of Somalia is made of one tribe, and that is called Somali tribe. This is same as nationalism.

Grant, if you go to Scotland, NI or Wales, and ask people what tribe they are, most of them will say "What?", "I'm gaelic", or "I'm [Inserts nationality here]". They do not know what the tribe really means and they do not make it an important thing, unlike us.

Also, according to your logic, whole of Somalia is made of one tribe, and that is called Somali tribe. This is same as nationalism.

Exactly right!

The Gaels are those who speak Gaelic, i.e. the Celts. The passport is "British" but the tribe is Scotch or Welsh and the clan is Campbell or McPherson.

Clan and tribe have become confused with reference to Somalia, and "tribe" can refer to any level of organization or number of individuals so long as they share genetics and leadership and form a community. But if the nation is the tribe, then the clans would be the 4.5., divided into sub clans and sub sub clans, as they are usually described. One difficulty with these designations in the Somali context is that it is hard to find even short periods in which all Somalis shared enough interests to form a single community, so that "tribes" may be a better description of what forms the nation.