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Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

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Voltage
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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:01 am

BlackVelvet wrote:
Voltage wrote:Did you ever think the nepotism might have been occurring when you were interacting with those intimately put in charge?


You just made Grant's point for him :mrgreen: or should I say ;)


No, I didn't and if you think I did you either don't know what we are talking about or can't read. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt on the comprehension part. Grant was in Somalia for two years from 1966-1968 and the head of his Somali language program was Hersi Magan Ciise. He has always referenced Xirsi Magan on this forum with the development of the Somali script and now says the reason Xirsi Magan did not get credit is because he was supposedly not Marehan.

I told him that Somalia in the latter 60's was extremely corrupt and that non-Somalis and Somalis alike have never really referenced Xirsi Magan as having much to do with the script as we know it. His only referencing of Magan has to do with personal interaction which could have been achieved through nepotism (official post). In fact, he says his material was written in 1966 with that made by Xirsi Magan, yet the official script representing Latin for Somali since 1962 had been Shire's and even posted the only literary magazine in print at that same time being written by Shire with Shire's version. I have also made it aware to him that BW Andrejewski (a Polish who is one of the most cited in Somali script development) who worked on the Somali language in the 50's and 60's wrote a manuscript in the 60's sourcing Shire Jama as the brains behind the Latin version for Somali.

All this is before "Siad Barre". My theory is Grant was a naive American who was led to believe somethings by those whom he was entrusted with and I am to assume continued links with even after Siad came to power and of course the big boogeyman Siad is now an excuse even though all of these proofs are before the time Siad came to power.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby BlackVelvet » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:11 am

I can't be bothered to read your essay.

When deciding which script would be adapted nepotism would play a role. I am agreeing with you and so is Grant.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby SultanOrder » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:13 am

BlackVelvet wrote:I can't be bothered to read your essay.

When deciding which script would be adapted nepotism would play a role. I am agreeing with you and so is Grant.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:18 am

Again that is more your lack of knowledge about the issue. Since 1962, Shire Jama's version of Latin was considered the representative of the latin modified version. There were many other scripts in competition including Arabic, but for Latin it was Shire Jama's version which was considered the representative so if nepotism would be occurring it would have occurred between Latin and Arabic and other various scripts, not between Shire Jama's version of latin or Xirsi Magan's version of latin which is what Grant was insinuating. Strong difference.

That same Somali books site says:

Iftiinka Aqoonta (LTGHT of EDUCATION) waa buug yar oo uu qoray Shire Jaamac Axmed oo ah aqoonyahankii qoray farta Soomaaliga ee aad hadda akhriyayso.

Buuggaan oo uu qoruruhu xilligaas ugu talagalay in dadku ku barto qorista iyo akhrinta Farta Soomaaliga, ayaa wuxuu soo saaray 25 Jannaayo 1967, wakhtigaas oo ah 5-sano ka hor markii Dawladdii Kacaanku 1972 si rasmi ah u hirgalisay Qoristii Afka Soomaaliga,

http://www.somali-books.com/Bookdetails.php?id=18#


Professor Hussein Tanzania (Isaaq/Habar Yonis) and the first Somali to graduate from Harvard in the 60's writes in his book about the development of the Somali script saying that the chairman of the committee to choose a national script throughout the 60's (Muuse Galaal) personally favored and advocated for Shire Jama's Latin version

The revolutionary development of the Somali language
Hussein Mohamed Adam
African Studies Center, University of California

Image


And all these Somali sites (I mean Grant just made a dangerous remark which has never before been mentioned by Somalis and if there was controversy Somalis would added to it but there has been no contention) none of which are Marehan sites or writers:

Xuruuftan la doortey waa tii uu Shire Jaamac lahaa, diidmadii ka timidna waa laga xoog batey. Hirgelinteediina, dowladda wax kharaj ah oo saa´idah oo uga baxay majirin, waayo makiinadihii iyo madbacadihii ey heesatey uun bey ku howlgashey.

http://www.mudugonline.com/MajertainSal ... dabaad.htm


6- Shire Jaamac Axmad oo ahaa ninka fartiisa laatiinka ah la doortey

sanadihii 1961-kii iyo 1966-kii, isagu kuma uusan jirin guddiga markii hore,

mardambe buuse ku soo biiri doonaa.

http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivefeb01/010423201.htm


1965-kii Shire Jaamac Axmad (Mareexaan) wuxuu qorey xuruuf laatiin ah, wuxuuna isticmaaley qawaaniintii uu dejiyey shiikh Maxamad Cabdi Miikaahiil. Shire wuxuu soo saarey buug yar oo uu ubixiyey "Iftiinka aqoonta" sanadkii 1967-kii, waxyaabaha ku qornaa waxaa kamid ahaa gabeyo uu isagu allifey. Sidaas buu Shire J. wuxuu kaga mid noqdey raggii u soo halgamey qorista af-soomaaliga. Shire wuxuu buugiisa ku qorey sidii raggii ka horreeyeyba maansooyin taariikhi ah, wuxuuse kaga duwanaa maanso walba wuxuu raaciyey sharra uu xuruufteeda adag ku micneynayo. Sidaa darteed baa buuggiisii waxaa qiimo gaara ah siiyey dadkii reer magaalka ahaa gaar ahaan dhallinyaradii.

http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivefeb01/010423201.htm


The specific version chosen was that devised by Shire Jama Ahmed, ... Indeed Shire had already used his Latin alphabet script back in the 1960s to print a series of books of poetry, ...

Language and national identity in Africa
Andrew Simpson
pg 288

http://books.google.com/books?id=CDAqAQ ... CEwQ6AEwBw



I really think Grant needs to apologize to all Somalis for his injurious insinuations.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby SultanOrder » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:22 am

I think what bv is talking about is who ended up getting the credit, kinda like the "victor writes the history books", and the mj guy's input got sidelined. So it became the "accepted truth" that shire wrote the somali script. Atleast I think that is her point, and voltage is stuck on whose version got picked when.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:27 am

You are both like 7th grade science students attempting to put your 2 cents about quantum physics. I am out of this topic. Anyone who reads it carefully and follows the issue closely including comprehensive reading on the topic will understand what I have written.

And yes, I fully comprehend what she wrote but its like allowing a 7th grader to opine on quantum physics as it is with you. It has much more depth than your surface the victor's side is taken. There are independent sources even when the "fight" was taking place. Both of your simplifications are unsuitable for such a discussion.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby BlackVelvet » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:29 am

And you respond with an even longer essay with quotes and references. I am scared the next thing you post will crash the system :lol:

PO

I am saying that his argument of nepotism playing a role in this whole issue is not just limited to when he is trying to make a point, it is not a Voltage only card. It is something that goes both ways. He disagreed with Grant when Grant made the argument, with a lot of patronising words and winks if I may add, then went on to use the same argument to defend his position. I don't care so much about who did what and when it is only that discrepancy that I point out.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby The_Patriot » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:33 am

Agaah!
voltage wakusidhey BV Marexan bey cashaqdheey why do you treat her like TL? ninyahow tolka hacebeenin a lady says she is interested in you in a codified manner and instead of decoding it you engage with her with a long lecture.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby SultanOrder » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:33 am

Voltage didn't Hirsi Ali help write the somali script, like it was a collaboration that led to two very similar versions???

Bv I understand where your coming from, don't know why voltage is going overboard in trying to get you to accept his "pan-marexaan" doctrine.


Dee patriot not every one knows about "easier" methods of "attracting" a girl :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:38 am

Folks,

A lot of people worked on the Somali Script, including Andrejewski ( whose nickname is Hoosh) and especially Musse Galal, who was doing extensive translations. Voltage proved that Shire was using X at least as early as 1967, so that is significant. But the choice of scripts was not made until 1973, and my point was that I have always felt that decision was partly political. I am not suggesting that Hirsi get sole credit, but I do feel he deserves an honorable mention. Shire did not develop the script in a vacuum, but Hirsi did NOT favor the Latin script. As I remember it, Hirsi wanted to use Osmaniya and so did not fight for the Latin. This probably also contributed to the credit results.


Voltage,

Apologize to the Somali people for what damage? This is a discussion of history......

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:39 am

Is Shire Mareexaan? :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:45 am

BW Andrejewski and IM Lewis both crediting Shire Jama's version as the best choice to write their Somali in 1964. There you go Grant. If Shire's script was officially made the best choice in 1973, that's because even right after independence and during latter parts of colonialism, all the experts had realized his modified Latin was the most suitable to write Somali.

Image

You shouldn't apologize for discussing history, but you should for maligning Shire and saying his credit is due to nepotism during Siad when way before that his version was considered the most astute to write Somali by even non-Somali experts.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby BlackVelvet » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:47 am

Patriot you know if you want to get my attention you could just say so? Si lazima kuanza conflict kila mara :lol:



accident wrote:Is Shire Mareexaan? :lol:


If anyone on SNet is writing an essay on someone or defending them, 99.99% of the time they are from the same qabiil. It is how the cookie crumbles :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:48 am

Ok wikipedia says Shire is Mareexaan. It all falls into place now. :lol:

Carry on.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:52 am

There you go BV. Your simplicity has become undone. Nepotism existed, but it wasn't Shire's side, it was the side that leads Grant to believe his mentor didn't get credit because of Siad big bad wolf. In 1964, the most authoritative non-Somalis (Andrezjewski for Somali language and IM Lewis for Somali history) crediting Shire as having the most suitable script for writing Somali.

That well deserved accolade for Shire is what I did not want Grant to diminish with his doe eyed tales of his mentor.


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