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Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

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Cumar-Labasuul
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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Cumar-Labasuul » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:55 am

Somalis are a strange bunch of people, they use quotes from non-somalis when it suits them and refute them when it goes against them. :up:

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Grant
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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:55 am

Volt,

Notice that the word they chose was "evolved". They all had a hand in it.

Hirsi wasn't using it in 1966 and MSB didn't adopt it until (you're right) 1972.

I have a book of Somali poetry, printed in 1969 and with a forward signed by Mohamed Haji Ibrahim Egal, that uses Hh for X and credits the script to Musse Galaal.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:56 am

Voltage wrote:There you go BV. Your simplicity has become undone. Nepotism existed, but it wasn't Shire's side, it was the side that leads Grant to believe his mentor didn't get credit because of Siad big bad wolf. In 1964, the most authoritative non-Somalis (Andrezjewski for Somali language and IM Lewis for Somali history) crediting Shire as having the most suitable script for writing Somali.

That well deserved accolade for Shire is what I did not want Grant to diminish with his doe eyed tales of his mentor.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Is this serious?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:01 am

Grant, Kim Jong Il could have his own modified version. It would be beside the point.

My point is was the 1972 officially chosen script Shire Jama Ahmed's? And also was it chosen through nepotism or merit when BW Andrezjewski ("Xoosh"), the most authoritative non-Somali linguist on the Somali language in that era, and IM Lewis both specifically credited Shire as having the most suitable version for them to use back in 1964?

Those were my contentions and I think I have proven. I think you need to admit that.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby SultanOrder » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:03 am

Grant made my point exactly :up: there is more to it than the "accepted truth"

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:23 am

The effort was joint. The credit was singular. I see where X is more ecomomical that Hh or H plus/, but they all do say the same thing and are workable. MSB made a choice that by 1972 probably represented a consensus that Musse Galaal had not yet accepted in 1969.

During the same era MAH was created a national hero, a fiction many foreign scholars went along with in the interest of creating Somali nationalism among two disparate groupings. Hirsi preferred Osmaniya, but did have a part in the evolution of the Latin script. He deserves to be remembered for more than his opposition and disowning Ayaan.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:29 am

I see. You obviously still have great appreciation for the man and if he left that impression on you from the time you were an American kid in a foreign African country, I suppose he must have been great. I agree he should be remembered, as Muuse Galaal, and all the others. I felt a push back was needed when you took a passive aggressive approach to Shire to the point of even trying to delegitimize him while unconditionally embracing your former mentor. All should be remember but not at the expense of the most important contribution. Still, no one deserves to be remembered just for disowning Ayan and I suppose one can understand your position.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby eyes-only » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:37 am

I'm confused, what script are you lot talking about? The Latin alphabet? I don't think you can credit that to Shire Jama or any Somali person for that matter.

The only debate or discussion that can exist in this area is why latin was adopted instead of Osmania...and at the end of the day, the conclusion will be because they chose to take the easier and most economical route.

Somali alphabet needs a lot of work and is far from perfect. I find it sad that you lot are arguing over who used 'x' before whom.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:39 am

eyes-only wrote:I'm confused, what script are you lot talking about? The Latin alphabet? I don't think you can credit that to Shire Jama or any Somali person for that matter.

The only debate or discussion that can exist in this area is why latin was adopted instead of Osmania...and at the end of the day, the conclusion will be because they chose to taking the easier and most economical route.

Somali alphabet needs a lot of work and is far from perfect. I find it sad that you lot are arguing over who used 'x' before whom.


They took it because Shire and MSB were from the same clan. :lol:

Shire's script was not the only one based on Latin alphabets.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby NoAngst. » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:39 am

Grant is right on the money. All Somalis who played part in the attempt to develop a written scrip for the Somali language deserve recognition and gratitude. Why some have this neurotic urge to minimize or even deny the contribution of others except for their fellow clansmen is a mystery to me. Recognizing the contributions of Xirsi, Kaddare, Galaal etc take nothing away from the prodigious achievements of Shire.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:42 am

Eyes-Only-

Those movements were considered revolutionary for their era. It is better for people to refrain from making judgement calls on issues beyond their grasp even today.

Accident-

Your trolling habits are becoming markedly noticeable and is highly unsuited for such discussions as this. Refrain before you are lobbied to refrain.

NoAngst-

I suppose Grant and I are in agreement now. He felt was totally ignoring other contributions and I felt he was delegitimizing Shire. We are in agreement now.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:44 am

Voltage wrote:Eyes-Only-

Those movements were considered revolutionary for their era. It is better for people to refrain from making judgement calls on issues beyond their grasp even today.

Accident-

Your trolling habits are becoming markedly noticeable and is highly unsuited for such discussions as this. Refrain before you are lobbied to refrain.

NoAngst-

I suppose Grant and I are in agreement now. He felt was totally ignoring other contributions and I felt he was delegitimizing Shire. We are in agreement now.


Give me your best shot. :lol:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:45 am

Eyes,

The Latin alphabet does not fit the Somali language. It had to be adapted for sounds like x and c and aa, oo uu, ii etc. It was actually a very complex evolution arriving at what is agreed upon today. There is probably just one script only because MSB said so.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby XimanJaale » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:47 am

I don't get these ignorant fools.

Somalia had NO official written language, every piece of written work was written in Italian, Arabic or English. All the governments in Somalia prior the Siad Barre revolution failed to create and implement the Somali written language.

One of the biggest achievement of the revolutionary government was the implement and creation of the Somali script. With thanks to academic professor Shire Ahmed who designed and worked hard to create a script to a precise perfection let it be economic wise or being close to matching a script with our language.

All the governments before Siad Barre failed to implement a script to our language, they pushed and shoved eachother to use Arabic text, Osmaniya, and others. Which all failed to present our language.

We should be proud of the Shire Jama script, and we should be proud of the revolutionary government for making it possible.


Eyes only,

This thread wasn't about who created the X. Cause the Somali script we use in Somalia, is created by Shire Jama, there is nothing in our script that comes from another person. Somalia has only 1 script, that is Shire Jama script :up:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby accident » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:48 am

Grant wrote:Eyes,

The Latin alphabet does not fit the Somali language. It had to be adapted for sounds like x and c and aa, oo uu, ii etc. It was actually a very complex evolution arriving at what is agreed upon today. There is probably just one script only because MSB said so.


:up: :up:


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