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Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

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Voltage
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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:58 pm

Like Cilmiile said, you were young, naive American kids whose Republicanism had maybe even led you to be biased against Shire's legacy because his fortunes increased post-1969. I don't know why you act like you are some experts on a pedestal we should be mindful of when we have the UNESCO 1966 recommendation right here (you and Johnson were either months in Somalia or months before you were in Somalia by that time). Notice Muuse Galaal's version is mentioned as "Orthography 4" and Shire's "Orthography 7" and still there is a strict recommendation to use Shire's specific version:

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I have also found that Shire did write the material for the Peace Corps program:

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Like I told you before even prior to me having all these facts now:

Voltage wrote: Grant was in Somalia for two years from 1966-1968 and the head of his Somali language program was Hersi Magan Ciise. He has always referenced Xirsi Magan on this forum with the development of the Somali script and now says the reason Xirsi Magan did not get credit is because he was supposedly not Marehan.

I told him that Somalia in the latter 60's was extremely corrupt and that non-Somalis and Somalis alike have never really referenced Xirsi Magan as having much to do with the script as we know it. His only referencing of Magan has to do with personal interaction which could have been achieved through nepotism (official post). In fact, he says his material was written in 1966 with that made by Xirsi Magan, yet the official script representing Latin for Somali since 1962 had been Shire's and even posted the only literary magazine in print at that same time being written by Shire with Shire's version. I have also made it aware to him that BW Andrejewski (a Polish who is one of the most cited in Somali script development) who worked on the Somali language in the 50's and 60's wrote a manuscript in the 60's sourcing Shire Jama as the brains behind the Latin version for Somali.

All this is before "Siad Barre". My theory is Grant was a naive American who was led to believe somethings by those whom he was entrusted with and I am to assume continued links with even after Siad came to power and of course the big boogeyman Siad is now an excuse even though all of these proofs are before the time Siad came to power.


I think all the Somali and non-Somali men who helped bring an orthography to Somali language should be remembered and respected but certainly not at the expense of each other or at the expense of the man whose specific version of Latin was chosen in 1961, 65, and 72 language commissions. We have absolute proofs of this and it would be redundant to mention them again.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:35 pm

John was under the impression that the drill book was written by a committee which included Hirsi. I was able to remember Hirsi's full name because it was typed across the face of mine, and because he was the lead instructor I may have just assumed he was the author. The strangest thing about this, if it is true that Shire wrote it, is that the official version of the script adopted in 1972 is in no way similar. I have mentioned the Volunteers confusion, and that is a real deal.
John may have an original copy that could shed some light on this. He is looking. These things were mimeographed a few at a time. Our group started early in the year. January, February. I am wondering if the Shire/Kosoll version was written later in the year for groups 5,6,7,8,9, that followed?

Voltage,

You will note under your information above that John's version of where Ayn and Hamza came from is the same: the commission combined Mussa's and Shire's work. I am not suggesting Shire be ignored; I may be wrong about the extent of Hirsi's involvement; but I am not alone in believing the accomplishment was large enough to share. For sure, Shire didn't do it alone. It pushes a button in me when folks say he did.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Voltage » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:40 pm

You have a problem with Shire, you established that since page one when you even went as far as to accuse his legacy of nepotism post-Siad revolution when we have UNESCO in 1966 recommending his specific version of Latin. Fortunately, facts sometimes are not liable to opinion and that is what you seem have a trouble with here.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:30 pm

Voltage,

No cuqdad here. I barely knew the man, and I am not pro or anti Mareexan. Actually, I didn't know. We never discussed qabiil.

By your own data above, the 1966 version of Shire's script was far from the official version. If it is the same as the Columbia version, it did not have X, C, or' and the double vowels and consonants were not yet set. He may have come up with the X, but the C and ' were added by the commission from Mussa's work. Yes, facts are nice. The UN was supporting a Latin solution. It couldn't have been supporting the version that was eventually created by the commission in 1972 because it didn't exist in 1961 or 1966. And it was the commission that did create it. The version they produced was neither Mussa's nor Shire's. It was a consensus.

Shire was a better advocate for the Latin script than he was an inventor. That part is opinion, but does seem to account for all of the facts. What I said about the exclusive choice by the regime for publicity for this very important accomplishment was that I felt it was political. Still do. I did not use the word nepotism. Nor did I say anything about the preference for a Somali author, or the influence Charles Kosoll might have had on all of this, Goosh and Heello and all the others......... Shire did not work in a vacuum.

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby RovingMadness » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:49 am

Grant,

You are a valuable asset here at SNET & I want you know that your views & opinions are greatly appreciated. :up:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby waryaa » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:05 am

RovingMadness wrote:Grant,

You are a valuable asset here at SNET & I want you know that your views & opinions are greatly appreciated. :up:


Grant thank you very much for educating us all :up: :up: :up:

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Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Postby Grant » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:26 am

I want to add to this thread my appreciation to Voltage for the depth of research he was able to bring to the table. I had no idea that stuff was out there or how to go about finding it.

The discussion led to unexpected places, which has to be a good thing. I will pursue Hirsi's contribution with John and report if anything comes of it. I find it interesting he was on the commission, advocating for Osmaniya. I am guessing he was embarrassed for any Latin contributions.

I didn't know Shire well, but I can say that he was very presentable, carried himself well, was soft-spoken and patient. Hirsi was less presentable, sometimes shrill and rarely patient. I regret never meeting Mussa Galaal. The description of the commission makes him sound like one real abrasive dude, someone easy to ignore after a while........ And that may explain it all.....


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