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Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:08 pm
by XimanJaale
I always wondered why Shire Jama Ahmed created letter H as X in his script invention of the Somali written language? That bit I always wondered.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:09 pm
by greenday
:? :?

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:16 pm
by Voltage
They are different. We have both HA and Xa.

HA

Baahi
Hambalyo
Shamhaad

XA

Xalay
Xamar
Maxaa

Somali doesn't have the Latin "X" and Latin Script doesn't have the Afro-Asiatic "Xa" so Shire used the Latin letter "X" for our "Xa" sound. It doesn't represent H, we have H as well.

In Arabic:

Somali HA letter equals = هه

Somali XA letter equals = ح

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:30 pm
by XimanJaale
Volt, thanks. Now I get it, so letter X itself has no use in Somali language just like letter P. But Shire used letter X for the reason you explained. Also did Shire write any grammar books? If yes could you tell me the name of the book.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:15 pm
by Voltage
He wrote one in 1976

Naxwaha Af Soomaaliga (The Somali language grammar) by Shire Jama Ahmed 1976

http://www.redsea-online.com/modules.ph ... nt&sid=255


Also, here is a copy of his literary magazine Iftiinka Aqoonta, you can buy copies http://www.somali-books.com/Bookdetails.php?id=18#

Image

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:28 pm
by Twist
Unrelated question.

Voltage & Ximan, is this man the father of Cabdi Shire Jaamac Jooqle, the singer?

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:15 am
by Voltage
No, he is not. This man is Shire Jaamac Axmed who devised the Somali modified Latin Script.

Image

Jooqle's father is Shire Jaamac Ciyaar-Jecel another famous literarian who was a composer.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:30 am
by Grant
There were a number of Latin scripts that were in use before Shire. Hirsi Magan Ciisse used H with a / through it for the plosive H that we now write X. Of course, the X is much easier. Both men taught at Columbia.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:54 am
by Voltage
Grant, we are talking about the officially drafted modified version. It belongs to Shire Jama of course not that there weren't other versions. I had no idea him and Xirsi Magan Ciise (Ayan Xirsi's father) both taught at Columbia. Did they teach linguistics?

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:09 am
by Grant
I am not sure what their official fields of study were. Hirsi developed the afSomali program for the Peace Corps project, and Shire backed him up. I could be wrong, but I have always felt that Shire got the credit because Hirsi was in the opposition to Siad Barre.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:18 am
by Voltage
Unfortunately for you, BW Andrzejewski's (main non-Somali linguist who had a hand in Somali literature before and post-colonialism) book published in the 60's gives credit to Shire Jama Ahmed as the brains behind the Latin-modified Somali script during the time it was first in competition as a national script in 1962. I can photocopy the book on Monday to this topic.

You're right, you are wrong.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:32 am
by Grant
Hoosh would be the one to believe, although the 1962 date seems strange, given that the PC material, used by both in 1966, used the H with the / through it. My feeling at that time was that the scripts were still pretty fluid. Would love to see a copy of the book. What year in the Sixties?

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:39 am
by Voltage
I would have to check the book. It is not a book per se, but I believe a manuscript by Andrejewski in the archived section of the graduate library in my alumnus. I'll make sure to photocopy for you and get the citation.

They called BW Xoosh?

Also, you were young naive American boy set in Somalia at a time when it was considered the most corrupt with a farce of a democracy and men were going around saying I am 35 with 35 million shillings to my name. Hirsi Magan was Osman Mahmoud/Majerten when the president was an Osman Mahmoud/Majerten and much of the government was open to corruption from that corner. Maybe you should question why he would be in charge of the Af-Somali program of the Peace Corps when men such as Shire Jama who were publishing the first Somali magazine and had put up their script as a candidate to national script in 1962 and Muuse Galaal who headed the committee to choose the script and the first Somali to be trained in phonetics were not? Did you ever think the nepotism might have been occurring when you were interacting with those intimately put in charge of you?

From 1960's writings on the Somali script development to recent from even anti-regime writers such as Diiriye, Shire Jama is prominently mentioned where most of the passing reference I had read on Hersi Magan and Somali script development has been on this board from you, a former protege of his.

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:41 am
by Voltage
Grant wrote:Hoosh would be the one to believe, although the 1962 date seems strange, given that the PC material, used by both in 1966, used the H with the / through it. My feeling at that time was that the scripts were still pretty fluid. Would love to see a copy of the book. What year in the Sixties?


Maybe the man entrusted with the task was pushing forward his own version. Historical legacy. ;) Here is the same magazine Shire was publishing during that same time with the "X" and not the H with the /

Image

You were a youthful doe eyed American unequipped to read between the lines of corruption and the game of influence played by the natives you were dumped in. ;)

Re: Shire Jama Script (Somali written language)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:49 am
by BlackVelvet
Voltage wrote:Did you ever think the nepotism might have been occurring when you were interacting with those intimately put in charge?


You just made Grant's point for him :mrgreen: or should I say ;)