DR-YALAXOOW

[Nanees]

Well here is where I think you guys are similar. You both make the assumption that why kafirs are so well of is because they get the life of this world and us the next, and two their system of governance is a reason for that.
It seems to me that your idea of "kafirs" or the way you guys are using it as (non-muslims) generally and (west) more specificly, doesn't include the 5 something billion people who are not muslim, who live in abject poverty a great majority with less than 2 dollars a day, and under unsuccessful "secular" governments. So when you guys say kafirs have the wealth of this dunya and muslims don't, I say not really only a few countries are "rich" while the great majority are not so.
As for why "secular governments work", no they don't really work, the great majority of governance in the world has been secular, look at the west and how many wars it has, how many depressions, look at communism an athiest system and how that worked out. Again in your guys's minds secularism equals economic prosperity which in reality it doesn't.
My last point is that your whole reasoning falls to the waist when you guys stop looking at the last 200 years as model for why the kafirs(west) gets the dunya and we get hereafter. When the middle east muslims where the most powerful, and richest empires in the world, for over a thousand years (should we go back to empires because its lasted longer and was more successful than what europe has now?), what would be the reason why europe was in abject poverty, constant warfare, and disease wiping out over a thirds of it's population. Did they get the worst of this dunya and also the hell of hereafter? Pretty sour deal if you look at. And all this successful secular democratic countries will they continue to be so? God knows, but I seriously doubt it. And will the muslims rise up economically, I don't know.

Let's not blame God why we are in the mess we are in by saying the Kafirs get this dunya, and we are meant to suffer in this dunya and have jannah because it's "God's fault".

You just wrote me an essay on everything I don't believe This is where I think dr's coming from:

Narrated Abu Huraira, the Prophet (saw) said, “The dunya is a prison for the believer and Paradise for the kafir (disbeliever),” [Sahih Muslim, vol.4, #7058]

I don't see why that substantiates a thesis on my beliefs and why they are wrong

[SultanOrder]

1. People abuse that hadith, because there are numerous hadith about the Nabi scw saying this world will be opened up to you, I fear for you wealth than poverty.

2. When you say the reason why secular governments work is because they have chosen this dunya over the next, were you saying that's dr yalaxows reasoning or that part came from you. If it came from you I rest my case.

[Nanees]

1. People abuse that hadith, because there are numerous hadith about the Nabi scw saying this world will be opened up to you, I fear for you wealth than poverty.

1. People abuse every hadith, thats why there are so many messed up aqeedahs and weird ass opinions like Dr. yaxaloow. But weird aqeedahs are like rumours, they're generally based on some truth.

2. When you say the reason why secular governments work is because they have chosen this dunya over the next, were you saying that's dr yalaxows reasoning or that part came from you. If it came from you I rest my case.

2.

This is where I think dr's coming from:

The dr's problem is he somehow believes the mahdi would fall into the traps of this dunya like he has.

I didn't say I agreed with the kid I just said i can understand his thought process. Muslims are tested in this dunya and the Dr sees that, but he doesn't see past that.

B.O, did you read anything I said before you decided to disagree with me?

[SultanOrder]

Thats why secular governments work, because they've chosen THIS dunya over the next. The dr's problem is he somehow believes the mahdi would fall into the traps of this dunya like he has.

This is where you stopped pointing out yalaxows argument and put your own views in it.

This statement clearly shows your own views on the matter, it comes clearly from you, and it is made as a factual statement not the opinion of someone else.
And this statement corroborates your previous statement indicating your views on this matter. How can the mahdi fall in to this "trap" (that secularism is a form of government that leads to financial prosperity) if it is not true. If you didn't believe "secular governments work because they've chosen this dunya" and leading yalaxow to falsely believe the mahdi will fall into the traps of this dunya, you might of well said yalaxow believes that the mahdi will fall into an imaginary hole and that is wrong.

[Nanees]

Thats why secular governments work, because they've chosen THIS dunya over the next. The dr's problem is he somehow believes the mahdi would fall into the traps of this dunya like he has.

This is where you stopped pointing out yalaxows argument and put your own views in it.

This statement clearly shows your own views on the matter, it comes clearly from you, and it is made as a factual statement not the opinion of someone else.
And this statement corroborates your previous statement indicating your views on this matter. How can the mahdi fall in to this "trap" (that secularism is a form of government that leads to financial prosperity) if it is not true. If you didn't believe "secular governments work because they've chosen this dunya" and leading yalaxow to falsely believe the mahdi will fall into the traps of this dunya, you might of well said yalaxow believes that the mahdi will fall into an imaginary hole and that is wrong.

You're reaching.

Secular governments DO work. The proof is in the world today, but, do me a favor. Name one functional and successful Islamic government?

Guess what, you can't. Because there are none. As flawless as the diin itself is, us believers are so full of flaws that we, at least in this moment at time, fail miserably at executing sharia'a law. Secular governments have decided to embrace this dunya, with no religious ties they form legislature based on facts and popular opinion, the majority of a population agrees on the course of action undertaken and are therefore cooperative, contributing citizens.

We as 21st century muslims can't even discover what the majority of a population would like because we can't even get a majority to agree on whether or not voting is haram. True Islamic leadership in a unified government at this point in time is as hopeless a dream as trying to catch smoke in your hands because of the fundamental divisions within the aqeedahs of the believers. That, combined with the knowledge that it seems as though all the material glamour of this dunya is largely in part reserved for the nonbelievers, is where I believe the OP was coming from. At the appearance of the mahdi, we will have a single Islamic leader inshaAllah with inarguably pure aqeedah that can serve as a uniter for all the currently broken sects. An islamic government can only succeed under the supervision of such a leader.

THAT is my opinion.

[Addoow]

Yalaxow is not a muslim and anyone who thinks so is deluded.i mean,The guys life revolves around inuu diinta wax ka sheego.

Bal eega doqonkaan. Who are you take someone out of Islam?

You are in no position to denounce someone else's religion.

There are 10 things which if you do take you out of the fold of islam and that includes inaad ku jees jeesto diinta.there are many people who think they are muslims while they are not including GAY union,dulli yalaxow and many.

[SultanOrder]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

[The_Patriot]

Addow
now you are temporarily my friend alas the qabil goggles have been removed.

[Alchemist]

Nanees and prefect order please do continue, I have benefited from reading your opinions

[Nanees]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

There is NO way an Islamic government could succeed in todays world.

[The_Patriot]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

There is NO way an muslim government could succeed in todays world.

fixed.

[accident]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

There is NO way an muslim government could succeed in todays world.

fixed.

What is the difference? Muslims follow Islam. Therefore a Muslim government is an Islamic government. Right?

[Nomand]

those who are calling him a gaal are no better then him. you have to know the difference between a gaal and a ignorant person like yalaxoow who is a muslim.

[The_Patriot]

Muslim and Islam are different in their ways.

Islam is the code of conduct set for humanity and it guarantees success and dominance. while a muslim is one who tries to adhere to Islamic principles but his prone to his own desires.

[Beenaale_No1]

@ your garble of what a secular government is

Now that you have admitted what I said you believed, refer back to my first reply to you.

Nanees make a good point though. Name one functional and successful Islamic government? The strongest Muslim nation, economically, military and socially is Turkey and Turkey is a secular democracy. As flawed as secularism can be, it does work.

Nanees makes a lot in that post of point which I agree with.