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@PO: I've never seen nor heard any hadith from the Prophet (PBH) saying we have to use his remains as a tabaruk, but on the other hand, I saw a hadith where he's advising us, Muslims, not to make his grave a worship place like those before us did.

What if I prove to you that it is permissible, by bringing just a hadith where a sahabi used a remains of the rasul as tabruk? Will you then change your opinion?

i was judging from the vid and the actions in it.


Q: why were they kissing the shaykhs hand as well?

I couldn't pass one minute I didn't want to see the reactions.

i was judging from the vid and the actions in it.


Q: why were they kissing the shaykhs hand as well?

So you made an assumption and came to a conclusion reinforcing your already biases and prejudices. Ok, thats all I needed to know.

As for them kissing the hand of the shaykh it is merely a custom of propriety. As the Japanese bow to eachother, and bow even lower to their superiors. As it is very common in our culture to kiss the hand of a relative, especially a grandma out of respect and love. It is very common in muslim cultures to kiss the hand of someone you respect, let alone their shaykh who they entrust with their religion. I will have you know that it is discouraged actually to kiss the hands of the shaykhs, but it is a rule often ignored, and students out of willful love purposely ignore their shaykhs modest desires. This is the most common understanding.

i was judging from the vid and the actions in it.


Q: why were they kissing the shaykhs hand as well?

So you made an assumption and came to a conclusion reinforcing your already biases and prejudices. Ok, thats all I needed to know.

As for them kissing the hand of the shaykh it is merely a custom of propriety. As the Japanese bow to eachother, and bow even lower to their superiors. As it is very common in our culture to kiss the hand of a relative, especially a grandma out of respect and love. It is very common in muslim cultures to kiss the hand of someone you respect, let alone their shaykh who they entrust with their religion. I will have you know that it is discouraged actually to kiss the hands of the shaykhs, but it is a rule often ignored, and students out of willful love purposely ignore their shaykhs modest desires. This is the most common understanding.

if their intent is to gain barakah from kissing the hair, then my assumption is correct. it is taken as a lucky charm, for the akhirah.

as for kissing the hand, it being out of respect is one thing, in hopes of barakah is another. i've assumed nothing and only asked.

Again you have done what you've also done, made a clear statement, after being challenged, you pretend that it wasn't a statement but just a question.

but this is something else. it's become a lucky charm.

This is clear cut that you believe it to be a lucky charm, and yet you can't prove to me from this video that, this is what is being attended by these people. I will ask you to please prove to me, that assertion is in fact true.

You made an assumption, regardless if it's correct or not, it's still an assumption not based on any verifiable facts from this video.

if their intent is to gain barakah from kissing the hair, then my assumption is correct. it is taken as a lucky charm, for the akhirah.

as for kissing the hand, it being out of respect is one thing, in hopes of barakah is another. i've assumed nothing and only asked.

How can admit to your assumption, and then in the next line claim to assume nothing.

statement/assumption of the hair, with an 'if'.

question of the hand. there was no assumption here.

not hard to follow, i think.

statement/assumption of the hair, with an 'if'.

question of the hand. there was no assumption here.

not hard to follow, i think.

Plz don't play me for a fool, the "if" only came as damage control after being called out for your prejudice and assumptions. You did not use if before that, reread your comments if that will make it clear for you. Now if you let go of your pride, and accept that you may or may not have prejudices that influenced to judge these people out of the bat, then we can deal with the validity of this in the religion. If you can't, then we can end our conversation about this.

All I am doing, (unfortunately in an aggressive manner, which I apologize for), is to simply bring to light that you have certain prejudices that lead you to criticize these Muslims unfairly and unjustly. I also want to prove to you that this is something that any person could be expected to do if they don't already have negative preconceived notions.

PO u truly are Voltages brother mr argumentative.

bro, no ones playing you for anything. it's obvious you're looking for an argument where there isn't one. i stated an opinion on the action, not the people. your wanting for debate has lead you to find statements ive never made.

quit being so defensive. has it suddenly become heretic to question?

crazy sufis should be locked up until they disparage their bidah, smh

Alpha when if someone were to say to me "Alpha has become hadheaded", do you think they are are asking me a question, or they are making a statement? Likewise, when you said "but it's become a lucky charm", I don't believe that you were asking a question but you were making a statement, that you were linking to an earlier statement of "more about whether or not an action is worship. even before i knew "bid'a" was or the divisions of muslims, unknowingly worshiping a man as the christians did was always in mind." and you were in your round-about way accusing them of shirk.

Now, if you admit that this is what you believe them to be doing, then let me at least attempt to disprove you.

Xalimofarax, I don't understand why Alpha is denying what he really feels them to be doing. If he didn't believe that they were doing it because they were attempting to get baraka (it's become a lucky charm), and that he believes they are "unknowingly worshiping a man as the christians", then why would he make those statements?

so, what you want is for me to outrightly say folks in this video are committing shirk and are as deviant as the christians? thats what you want?
that aint ever gunna happen. dont waste your time.

it's obvious you're looking for some allowance or approval through winning a debate.



my comment to twist was general, touching on how i came to unnderstand right from wrong, regarding worship and praise. not specific to anyone.

Bro, I think I have made your views clear of these people, you would not have been so shocked of what they were doing, like me, and you would have seen it as a perfectly acceptable thing, like I did, and you would not have conjured images of worshiping Nabi Muhammad scw (God forbid).

So you see people treasuring to what they believe are the remains of the Nabi Muhammad scw, and you see them paying homage to it by kissing the container in which it is held, and they send peace and blessings to the rasul. All perfectly acceptable things. What do you know about their views of making it a "lucky charm", nothing. You assumed it.

Anyway let me ask you clearly, do you believe that it can be characterized what they are doing as worshiping the rasul scw through his remains, knowingly or unknowingly? Secondly, do you have any hesitations in what they are doing, as something questionable in terms of it's validity?

My instict would say don't kiss it and I would trust that.