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Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 pm
by luis1
Somalia withdrew because Somalia could not defeat Soviet Union,Cuba,Yemen and Ethiopia alone.

That is a defeat.

If I am fighting with a man and then his cousin,his father,his brother helped him to beat me,this a a defeat.The four men defeated me.
Somalia could not capture Ogaden in 1978.
WSLF was defeated afterwards
Ethiopia became stronger than Somalia after Ogaden War
Somalia was weaker and was not a serious military hreat to Ethiopia after Ogaden War.
This is a clear defeat.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:54 pm
by Conqueror
Somalia was never defeated without. Somalia was defeated within.
"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within"

-Will Durant

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:01 pm
by fighter
It wasn't a defeat. It was a strategic decision made by the Somali military.

Somalia was victorious, especially during the beginning of the war. The Somali army were deep into the Ogaden region and were just a few miles away from Addis Ababa.

Certain distractions, like the Soviet assistance, was hindering Somalia's goal of freeing the Ogaden region.

As a result of these distractions, Somalia withdrew.

It wasn't a defeat.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:06 pm
by luis1
The somali books and the somali authors as:

Nurrudin Farah( a famous novelist,he wrote "Maps") :clap:
Abdi Ismail Samatar
Said Samatar
Ahmed Samatar
Ali K Galaydh
Jama Mohamed Ghalib


All the says Somalia was defeated in 1978.


The opinion of Nurrudin Farah:

http://www.egs.edu/faculty/nuruddin-farah/quotes/
“The idea of the . . . trilogy is centered around the notion of an orphaned nation . . . I had in mind to have orphans as the central consciousness of each of the novels, and this serves as the trilogy's thematic concern," the author says. "As a general, Siad Barre [the national leader ousted during the 1991 uprising] fails the Somali nation when the national army is defeated at the hands of the combined efforts of Ethiopia, Cuba, and the then-Soviet Union. He fails a second time when he doesn't resign as soon as the defeated national army returns to base. Defeat is an implosive nature, an infestation capable of poisoning the body-politic of a people. Somalia, as a result, begins to rely on foreign aid. And Secrets is the novel in which it all explodes.”
Farah, Nuruddin.

I think the truth is there if somalis want to accept it,fine if do not that is their decision.

The world knows the truth.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:12 pm
by luis1
It wasn't a defeat. It was a strategic decision made by the Somali military.

Somalia was victorious, especially during the beginning of the war. The Somali army were deep into the Ogaden region and were just a few miles away from Addis Ababa.

Certain distractions, like the Soviet assistance, was hindering Somalia's goal of freeing the Ogaden region.

As a result of these distractions, Somalia withdrew.

It wasn't a defeat
Find me sources which prove your point of view.

I have one of a colonel who fought in Ogaden War,everybody knows him

Abdullahi Ahmed Yusuf say this sentence in his book:

http://allpuntland.com/xayaysiis/bookcy ... pe2011.pdf
Poor political leadership lay at the core of the defeat of the somali army in this war.Following the defeat and withdrawal of the battle theatre
Yusuf is accepting Somalia was defeated.

You know more about Ogaden War than Yusuf who fought in such war.Please give me a break.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:16 pm
by fighter
You are clearly an Aidsthopian. Cut the Cuban-Peruvian nonsense.

You were handled by the Somalis and were defeated by the Somalis. As a result, you had to call in the Soviets to help you. At the beginning of the war, the Soviets were strangely supplying weapons to both the Ethiopians and the Somalis. Once the Soviets saw how far into Ethiopia the Somalis have went in, they have to intervene and obviously assist the Aidsthopians.

Soviet assistance made Somalia reconsider their strategies and they decided to withdraw.

That is the reality you Aidsthopian.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:20 pm
by fighter
You are not Peruvian or Cuban. You are an Ethiopian.

The average Peruvian or Cuban is not interested in the Ogaden War nor have they even heard about it.

Even if they have heard about it, they would not go to the extent you have gone to make the crazy assertion that Somalia lost the war.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:23 pm
by luis1
If you think I am ethiopian,that doesnt care to me.

I know who I am.

I am a Cuban who lives in Peru.

Do you want to talk to me by messenger,I will talk to you in spanish.We can talk by messenger and you will see my mail.
Soviet assistance made Somalia reconsider their strategies and they decided to withdraw
But Somali Army was almost destroyed,look at these casualties:
The Ogaden War weakened the Somali military. Almost one-third of the regular SNA soldiers, three-eighths of the armored units and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF) were lost. The weakness of the Barre regime led it to effectively abandon the dream of a unified Greater Somalia. The failure of the war aggravated discontent with the Barre regime; the first organized opposition group, the Somali Salvation Democratic Front (SSDF), was formed by army officers in 1979

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War

Check out this video:




Explain to me why all somali authors say Somalia was defeated militarily in 1978.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:32 pm
by fighter
You are using Wikipedia. Come on dude.

Ok we will look at your information you gave us.

1) Somalia and Ethiopia suffered roughly the same amount of casualties.
2) Ethiopia had 5 times more wounded soldiers than Somalia did
3) Ethiopia has more than 11 times more captured or missing soldiers than Somalia did
4) Close to 1,500 Ethiopian soldiers DESERTED the war.
5) Soviet Union lost 1,400 vehicles compared to only 90 Somalia vehicles
6) Soviet Union lost 100 more armoured personal carriers than Somalia
7) Soviet Union lost 60 more tanks than Somalia lost.

The only reason the Ethiopian army grew in strength was because of Soviety assistance DURING and AFTER the war. Somalia lost Soviet assistance and therefore were not able to grow its military.

FACTS SON! You are ignoring the losses on the Ethiopian-Soviet side. If anything, they suffered a bigger hit DURING the war. We were not defeated. It was a strategic decision to withdraw.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:41 pm
by fighter
IT WAS A 1 AGAINST 4 WAR AND SOMALIA FOUGHT LIKE THE LIONS THEY ARE. THEY FOUGHT HARD AND CRITICALLY INJURED YOU.

LONG LIVE THE SOMALI "RACE". YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME INDIVIDUALS WHO CHASED AWAY THE INVADING AMERICANS IN MOG CITY.

YOU LOSE

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:44 pm
by fighter
I WON. ASALAMU ALAYKUM WARAXMATULLAHI WABARAKATU. LOCK THE THREAD NOW BEFORE TROLLS COME IN. I WON.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:02 pm
by waryaa
Soviets were defeated pretty bad till the the weather changed to their advantage. Germany was and still is in its own league when it comes to innovation, engineering and perfection.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:04 pm
by luis1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogaden_War
From October 1977 until January 1978, the SNA-WSLF forces attempted to capture Harar, where 40,000 Ethiopians had regrouped and re-armed with Soviet-supplied artillery and armor; backed by 1500 Soviet "advisors" and 11,000 Cuban soldiers, they engaged the attackers in vicious fighting. Though the Somali forces reached the city outskirts by November, they were too exhausted to take the city and eventually had to withdraw to await the Ethiopian counterattack.

The expected Ethiopian-Cuban attack occurred in early February; however, it was accompanied by a second attack that the Somalis did not expect. A column of Ethiopian and Cuban troops crossed northeast into the highlands between Jijiga and the border with Somalia, bypassing the SNA-WSLF force defending the Marda Pass. The attackers were thus able to assault from two directions in a "pincer" action, allowing the re-capture of Jijiga in only two days while killing 3,000 defenders. The Somali defense collapsed and every major Ethiopian town was recaptured in the following weeks. Recognizing that his position was untenable, Siad Barre ordered the SNA to retreat back into Somalia on 9 March 1978, although Rene LaFort claims that the Somalis, having foreseen the inevitable, had already withdrawn its heavy weapons.The last significant Somali unit left Ethiopia on 15 March 1978, marking the end of the war.

Effects of the warFollowing the withdrawal of the SNA, the WSLF continued their insurgency. By May 1980, the rebels, with the assistance of a small number of SNA soldiers who continued to help the guerilla war, controlled a substantial region of the Ogaden. However by 1981 the insurgents were reduced to sporadic hit-and-run attacks and were finally defeated.

The Ogaden War weakened the Somali military. Almost one-third of the regular SNA soldiers, three-eighths of the armored units and half of the Somali Air Force (SAF) were lost. The weakness of the Barre regime led it to effectively abandon the dream of a unified Greater Somalia. The failure of the war aggravated discontent with the Barre regime; the first organized opposition group, the Somali Salvation Democratic Front (SSDF), was formed by army officers in 1979.
Wikipedia is very clear,Siad Barre position in Ogaden was untenable,so He retired his army from Ogaden.
WSLF was destroyed in 1981 and Greater Somalia dream was shattered after Ogaden War.
After Ogaden War,Ethiopia was the strongest power in Horn of Africa and Somali Army was no match to Ethiopia.

Perhaps Ethiopia losses were higher than Somalis but at the end of the day ,Ethiopians had more troops for fighting and weapons from Soviet Union and Somali Army could not recover from its losses,Ethiopia had Cuban troops and Soviet weapons and with this aid Somalia could not defeat Ethiopia alone.Ethiopian could lose more men than somalis that is not important they have many more somali population in 10 million Ethiopians are 70 millions and the end the allies(Cuba,Russia and Ethiopia) had more resources and weapons to continue the war but Somalia could not fight the war alone.

Final outcome of the war: Somalia failed to recover Ogaden War and afterwards Somali Army was not a serious threat to Ethiopia any longer.

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:09 pm
by fighter
Luis,

Your arguments were very weak. I am sorry. You lose 8-)

Re: Long Live Soviet Union

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:12 pm
by Rightwing
Soviets were defeated pretty bad till the the weather changed to their advantage. Germany was and still is in its own league when it comes to innovation, engineering and perfection.

And today Germany leads Europe as its leading economic power. This is what they say"ich bin sehr stolz ein Deutscher zu sein!"