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Union the secular world has done nothing but brought damnation upon Somalis, actually not Somalis but the whole world. Union as i assume your a Muslim , as a Muslim you and i must take the kitab as a book that can explain all things, and that includes this strange ever-still evolving world we live in today and which is why Allah said
"Wa nazzalnaa alaykal kitaab tibyan li-kulli shay-in"
"And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things" [16;89], So you musn't look to nowhere else other then your own resources, for if one is born muslim he is born upon the ultimatly correct path of mankind, and that he has all he needs to form a surviving legislation, not one where the usurper reaps of the sweat , blood and tears of a worker, that does not work in Islam, and if it is brought into a Islamic nation, that nation is void from the blessings and mercy of god, it faces hardships because of the Muslims who rule the nation did not do their duty, rather they went against the very code of the quran. And so my point is solely the qur'an alone, if interpreted and understood correctly is sufficient in forming a rule or some form of legislation or jurisprudence in a muslim nation, this does not go for non-muslim nations because they can rule their nations as they wish, but ours is a obligation and is compulsory to rule with the rule of allah, and that is not the sharia preached by the neo-salafis and the likes of anjem choudary, but the sharia of Umar bin Khattab that where Jews and Christians lived peacefully under his rule.

I notice you're both a tribalist and obsessed with religion...a mix of terrible negative potential
How a Western educated youth could have such regressive beliefs is a mystery beyond me

Union makes some good points here, but then ruins it all at the end with the emphasis on secularism and the neocon talking points. Tunis under Ben Ali and Egypt under Mubarak were secular. Both are gone. And for the first time in decades, people can speak their mind without a friendly visit from the secularist Gestapo.

The problem with religious rule isn't religion, it's the men who implement the axkaam. Even under the super-puritanical ICU/AS, where theoretically all are supposed to be equal under the Shareeca laws, only the poor & hapless would be punished. 4 starving boys steal something and get their hands chopped off, yet Cusmaan Caato who practically invented the Isbaaro, gets off scotch-free when he was captured. Same thing goes for Saudi or anywhere else where Shareeca law is implemented. One set of laws for the powerful, another set for the commoners.

Western judiciary isn't perfect by any means, and there are certain inequities that are almost built-in, but at least they have a semblance of equality under the rule of law, which works most of the time. A lowly hotel maid accuses a powerful man of rape. There is no physical evidence of rape. Only her word. And only on her word, this powerful man is dragged from a airplane, handcuffed, paraded in full view of the media and thrown in jail. He's only released and the case against him dropped when the woman's story falls apart.

^^ Would the above happen in any Muslim country today? If you say: "Yes", you're lying and you know it.

The reality is Western civilization is on the decline, the US dollar is on the verge of collapse and nuclear war is imminent. Thus shall arise a new dawn, Islamic civilization ruled by the noble Mahdi awaiting the second Messiah. Indeed when he arrives we shall be saved from the rapture.

Deenta haku ciyaarin; troll on some other topic, kid.

Speak for yourself. I personally have no problems with my forefathers' mindsets.

Your forefathers' mindset is what turned you into a refugee fleeing civil war, qax, gaajo, rafaad. Brutal honesty is always better than mythical nonexistent pride. We're the lowest of all countries in almost every indicator. Even the weapons we use to kill each other, we have to import.

Either we radically change our mindset, or we build a permanent home at the bottom of humanity while clinging on to false pride.

Leftist? Where did I troll the deen? Indeed what I said is going to come to fruition, its just a matter of time.

Union you call for a nation where the rich are fed with aid and the villagers are killed with drones , i.e another pakistan . What kind of a dead vision is that?

Granpa,

The "rapture"? really? Besides the evangelical lingo, there's the whole "let's sit on our hands and wait for the Messiah to rescue us" trolling.

Leftist: Xplain how are all the shyt that happened in somalia attributable to our forefathers' mindset? when we speak of mindsets, do you concur it has more than one dimension; both positive and negative that is? Specify and say the 'negative mindset' of our forefathers' rather than categorically rebuking and stigmatizing the beliefs, ideas and practices of our forefathers.

Union makes some good points here, but then ruins it all at the end with the emphasis on secularism and the neocon talking points. Tunis under Ben Ali and Egypt under Mubarak were secular. Both are gone. And for the first time in decades, people can speak their mind without a friendly visit from the secularist Gestapo.

What "necon talking points" are you referring to? Also, Ben Ali and Mubarak were both tyrants, their secularism does not avail them from their opposition to the blessings of liberty and freedom. Secularism is meaningless without freedom and equality.

Union you call for a nation where the rich are fed with aid and the villagers are killed with drones , i.e another pakistan . What kind of a dead vision is that?

I do believe it is ethical to use violence against those whose beliefs threaten the well being of society, and I also do believe that those who act righteously (such as by enshrining female rights into the constitution) should be rewarded and aided. Nothing wrong with that.

Leftist: Xplain how are all the shyt that happened in somalia attributable to our forefathers' mindset? when we speak of mindsets, do you concur it has more than one dimension; both positive and negative that is? Specify and say the 'negative mindset' of our forefathers' rather than categorically rebuking and stigmatizing the beliefs, ideas and practices of our forefathers.

I should've been more specific, but the negatives far outweigh the positives, and the proof lies in our history and our current reality.

Specifically,

- The "Waan daadshe" mindset, as coined by Lamagoodle.

- The "dont plan anything because Allah will provide" mindset

- The " waa gaal oo xaarka iska dhaqin" mindset, smh@ the ironic superiority complex

- And the most obvious one: the "fiqi tolkiisa kama jano tago" mindset

If our mindset doesn't completely change, at the societal level, then 100 years from now, the Somali name will still be synonymous with famine, failed statehood, & never-ending qabiil warfare. And in a 100 years, at the current rate of growth & development, landlocked multi-ethnic Ethiopia will be (among) the most advanced country in Africa.

Union makes some good points here, but then ruins it all at the end with the emphasis on secularism and the neocon talking points. Tunis under Ben Ali and Egypt under Mubarak were secular. Both are gone. And for the first time in decades, people can speak their mind without a friendly visit from the secularist Gestapo.

What "necon talking points" are you referring to?

This, for example

the blessings of liberty and freedom

neocon code for "invade and occupy 'oppressed natives' and remake them in Our Image". So yeah, drop the neocon and secular(will never work in Somalia) references and the excessive isku-dhijin and you have a top-notch post.

Of course it will work in Somalia. The people are desperate for a system that gives them the very basics needed for human existence, and no other system will work except a secular liberal democracy. We might consider holding off on the democracy part though, for I don't believe that a nation of ignorant and superstitious camel herders is yet ready to anoint its own leaders. Our leaders for the foreseeable future should be erudite and liberal western educated professionals with a deeply held belief in and adherence to western values. Any Somali political party which nominates candidates or supports policies in opposition to this vision should be, in my view, added to the terrorist list and suppressed.

Secular union, firstly let me welcome you back to the site. Indeed your absence was a long one and many where left wondering where the Imam of modernist Islam was at.

As for your point of promoting secularism in Somalia then what do you have to say about the current president and PM which are said to be Islamists from the Islah party (Somali Muslim Brotherhood)? Surely the days of secularism are a distance memory stuck in 70s/80s.

Secular union, firstly let me welcome you back to the site. Indeed your absence was a long one and many where left wondering where the Imam of modernist Islam was at.

As for your point of promoting secularism in Somalia then what do you have to say about the current president and PM which are said to be Islamists from the Islah party (Somali Muslim Brotherhood)? Surely the days of secularism are a distance memory stuck in 70s/80s.

I bid you thanks for your warm welcome, dear friend. I was unjustly banished for preaching the truth and ministering to the ignorant and unlettered masses of SNET by a wicked and vile moderator whose name I shall not mention, but I have been granted a reprieve by our most just heroine mistress with the understanding that I refrain from blaspheming our creator god and his one true holy faith. But I find that proscription an undue burden on my personage, just as a proscription against causing controversy would be on a journalist or political commentator.

As for your second point, I have heard rumors that our illustrious new PM is a man who indulges the forbidden drinks so I hope his alleged Islamist loyalties are nothing greater than those of our deposed crimson lipped dugsi macalin made chief.