Let us abandon the camel!!!

[Talo alle udaa]

Lama, you can either be a solution or a problem.

True the Somali society has many ills, and if your self-criticism is meant to be a means of raising awareness then this isn't the place for it. There are many youth organizations that exist world wide, i would suggest you channel your "solutions" to those venues.

Better yet, maybe you should start a farm back home so that your actions match your words.

Who said farming and the camel couldn't be combined, here is an example of such endeavor

start at: 1:06 min

[Lamagoodle]

Lama, you can either be a solution or a problem.

True the Somali society has many ills, and if your self-criticism is meant to be a means of raising awareness then this isn't the place for it. There are many youth organizations that exist world wide, i would suggest you channel your "solutions" to those venues.

Better yet, maybe you should start a farm back home so that your actions match your words.

Who said farming and the camel couldn't be combined, here is an example of such endeavor

start at: 1:06 min

What about camel mentality (which was the thesis of this piece)? and do you think the majority of somalis are camel herders?

We need to question and examine the fabrics of our society saaxib. It is a society that is wrongfully potrayed as beinb based on camel herding
Many of you appear to not understand my point; I have nothing against the camel.

[BlackVelvet]

informal discussions relates biological evolution.

Oh dear, that argument?


You know it seems there is no winning or even a middle ground in this debate for every positive aspect you will list a hundred negative angles to muddy the water. Not that facts should be ignored such as the ones you mentioned and more importantly their causes but I don't see how creating or even spreading hate through insults will achieve anything. Now there is definitely room for improvement but I think it would be amiss not to take into consideration the context of Somali immigration into Europe and the life people had back home. How many of the people you are talking about were educated in the first place? How many parents have gone to university themselves and is it fair to expect their children to do so or even have the grades to go to university - considering the probable lack of support at home? This is not something Somali specific; even in the Caucasian community being the first generation in a family to attend university is a big deal. Furthermore consider the culture shock of having to adjust to the legal and economic structure in the West. Even those who lived in the cities lived under a socialist dictatorship - consider the difference in culture between Eastern and Western Germany that exists until this day. All things considered I think the Somali community is doing reasonably well. These are (in the main) not even second generation immigrants we are talking about.

[ElfRuler]

I propose that we abandon our fascination with the camel and instead embrace agriculture for several reasons;
1) It will lead to peace;Farming societies are generally peace loving and are domiciled in the same place. Camel herding is an obstinate endeavour which entails a nomadic life filled with conflicts for grazing lands.
2) Embracing farming will contribute to food safety for our starving people
3) It will lead to innovations
4) It will help our state coffers because farmers could easily be taxed
5) It will reduce our imports
6) It will reduce our dependency on foreign aid.

I love reading your threads, well written and most importantly you always leave behind a solution to the problems you've verified.

Camel Herding has made us lazy and dependent on whatever nature brings our way. Farming requires rigorous work and a future oriented mindset that could at least partially predict the future. Present actions are intertwined with future results, and the past is only there to be learned from. So, how are we suppose to change a society that prefers short term benefits, immediate results and complete attachment to old traditional values and a poor working ethic? We've always looked to our past to foster hope for the future, while neglecting the present. I think mindset that the elderly are always "correct" and should be "listened" to is also part of the problem. Our present is filled with the tales of the old, and not the aspirations of the young. The elderly, no matter how uneducated and wrong they are will always be valued, and the young who want to mold their own present and future are seen as dreamers and unrealistic. We also believe that things will happen no matter what we do, so we should go with the flow rather than planning and investing in what could possible be. Farming would change our society and our thinking process for the best. Hopefully, we will realize that things are not suppose to be static, but constantly changing. And farming in its essence is about transformation, growth and rebirth.

[Lamagoodle]

Oh dear, that argument?


You know it seems there is no winning or even a middle ground in this debate for every positive aspect you will list a hundred negative angles to muddy the water. Not that facts should be ignored such as the ones you mentioned and more importantly their causes but I don't see how creating or even spreading hate through insults will achieve anything. Now there is definitely room for improvement but I think it would be amiss not to take into consideration the context of Somali immigration into Europe and the life people had back home. How many of the people you are talking about were educated in the first place? How many parents have gone to university themselves and is it fair to expect their children to do so or even have the grades to go to university - considering the probable lack of support at home? This is not something Somali specific; even in the Caucasian community being the first generation in a family to attend university is a big deal. Furthermore consider the culture shock of having to adjust to the legal and economic structure in the West. Even those who lived in the cities lived under a socialist dictatorship - consider the difference in culture between Eastern and Western Germany that exists until this day. All things considered I think the Somali community is doing reasonably well. These are (in the main) not even second generation immigrants we are talking about.

Where do you live?

You are right there are some somalis who make it. I have no denied that. But, the majority are lazy, welfare cheats etc.

I suggest we live the bubble of waan-daadshe.

Let me challenge you Blackvelvet; give me an example of what is good about somalis???? Maxaan ku faani karnaa? please do not list common things.

[Lamagoodle]

I propose that we abandon our fascination with the camel and instead embrace agriculture for several reasons;
1) It will lead to peace;Farming societies are generally peace loving and are domiciled in the same place. Camel herding is an obstinate endeavour which entails a nomadic life filled with conflicts for grazing lands.
2) Embracing farming will contribute to food safety for our starving people
3) It will lead to innovations
4) It will help our state coffers because farmers could easily be taxed
5) It will reduce our imports
6) It will reduce our dependency on foreign aid.

I love reading your threads, well written and most importantly you always leave behind a solution to the problems you've verified.

Camel Herding has made us lazy and dependent on whatever nature brings our way. Farming requires rigorous work and a future oriented mindset that could at least partially predict the future. Present actions are intertwined with future results, and the past is only there to be learned from. So, how are we suppose to change a society that prefers short term benefits, immediate results and complete attachment to old traditional values and a poor working ethic? We've always looked to our past to foster hope for the future, while neglecting the present. I think mindset that the elderly are always "correct" and should be "listened" to is also part of the problem. Our present is filled with the tales of the old, and not the aspirations of the young. The elderly, no matter how uneducated and wrong they are will always be valued, and the young who want to mold their own present and future are seen as dreamers and unrealistic. We also believe that things will happen no matter what we do, so we should go with the flow rather than planning and investing in what could possible be. Farming would change our society and our thinking process for the best. Hopefully, we will realize that things are not suppose to be static, but constantly changing. And farming in its essence is about transformation, growth and rebirth.

Soo dhowow walaal.

I am glad that you are not into the prozac mood; we are the best of the best mantra that is responsible for our plight.

[Lamagoodle]

I have a question to you Blackvelvet, Tallo and others;

Do you think somalis lack intellectual curiosity? I have been dwelling on this question for many years.

Please take some days to think about this question.

I interact alot with non-somalis and unlike many somalis I read reports, newspaper articles and scientific articles on somalis. I tell you what; magaceena wuu ba'ay.

When I visit somali websites and when I watch somali TVs I see people who are not aware of what is happening around them.

We are on illusion train.

[BlackVelvet]

Where do you live?

You are right there are some somalis who make it. I have no denied that. But, the majority are lazy, welfare cheats etc.

I suggest we live the bubble of waan-daadshe.

Let me challenge you Blackvelvet; give me an example of what is good about somalis???? Maxaan ku faani karnaa? please do not list common things.

I live in London and I see every Somali owned business as an achievement. I also feel proud every time I see an older Somali man or woman working when I'm out and about. These are people who had to learn English at an older age, some people are qualified professionals and their qualifications have not been accepted but they still work. I feel genuinely proud when I see an individual or a family who have made a life for themselves despite everything.

What is good about Somalis is a question which is born out of anger and insecurity from comparing Somalis to other communities and civilizations. Aniga my own achievements xataa ma ku faani kari without feeling silly because I know most things are a blend of good timing, need and opportunity. Take England and Japan for example - if they weren't relatively isolated islands with God given fertile land fit to create agriculture based economies which (as you mentioned) inherently lead to political stability, would they have taken the paths they did in history?

I think most people try to make the best out of the cards they are dealt and that is evident with the Somali community who have settled everywhere around the world and used the new opportunities to get educated and unleash their entrepreneurial spirit both within and outside Somalia. Those who haven't been able to adapt, well you win some you lose some - they need a bit more help in adjusting to a different way of life.

[Lamagoodle]

Blackvelvet, when I read what you wrote, I can't help but think that you are a very innocent woman.

Again, I am not denying that there are some good people. But, the general picture is different than the one you have painted. I know London very well and I am a frequent visitor. Things are not the way they look; somalis lead a double life; they have no respect for institutions; the shopkeeper, the restaurant owner, the wadaad and the worker are generally welfare cheats. Their kids are bastards (in the eyes of the law) because of welfare dependency.

Entrepreneurship of the kind somalis engage in will not bring prosperity. It will only corrupt others because it is based on imitation.

P.s. suaasha kor ku qoran ka jawaab.

[BlackVelvet]

LamaG like I said there is no winning. Su'aashe?

[Lamagoodle]

Blackvelvet,


Waa tan suaashada

I have a question to you Blackvelvet, Tallo and others;

Do you think somalis lack intellectual curiosity? I have been dwelling on this question for many years.

Please take some days to think about this question.

I interact alot with non-somalis and unlike many somalis I read reports, newspaper articles and scientific articles on somalis. I tell you what; magaceena wuu ba'ay.

When I visit somali websites and when I watch somali TVs I see people who are not aware of what is happening around them.

We are on illusion train.

Waa inoo berito waan seexanayaa...

[PrinceDaadi]

I agree with lam, camel herding mentality is the problem that is keeping us backward.

Normally Somali agricultural communities are more peaceful than the camel herders which shows that Somali nomads from north of river shabelle and their immigrants in the South are the problem.


As Lam said agriculture will solve our problem, it will create jobs so we will not have idle time to kill each other, it will give us food security and above all we will build civilization based on work ethics.

Wax Somalidu aduunkaan korkiisa ku fiicantahay aad ayay u yaryihin.

[Talo alle udaa]

I have a question to you Blackvelvet, Tallo and others;

Do you think somalis lack intellectual curiosity? I have been dwelling on this question for many years.

Please take some days to think about this question.

I interact alot with non-somalis and unlike many somalis I read reports, newspaper articles and scientific articles on somalis. I tell you what; magaceena wuu ba'ay.

When I visit somali websites and when I watch somali TVs I see people who are not aware of what is happening around them.

We are on illusion train.

Sxb the hours you spend on thinking about these things can either be beneficial for us Somalis or you can be part of the problem.

From reading what you wrote, I sense you want to change things for the better. The questions is how.
You can't do it by changing everything, the religion, culture, etc. You can't do it by sitting around with people of different background, seeing how they view us and then hope to "convert" us into what they think we should be. And you certainly can't lump the problems Somalis face back home & the west and attribute it all to the somali way of seeing things.

Sxb, if you want to IMPROVE the situation of the somali, then understand their concerns and work with their shortcomings to lighten their burden. Radical changes are short sighted, will not work, and you will end up alienating people with your ideas.

Offer viable solutions that can work within the framework of the many short comings that make up the "somali" and be consciously aware of what yardstick you are measuring their successes & failures.

[misterioso]

where did that come from?

Just wondering the motive behind your suggestion to abandon the camel or mentality.

[xaliye123]

Sacabbada nadiifka ah kolkii, lagu salaaxaayo
Samsam baa ka soo duula iyo, caano saayida'e
Sucsuc iyo karuur iyo dhanaan, sabarka kuu buuxsha
Sulux dhay ah iyo xoor ku siman, Seenyoy adigaa leh!

Waryaadhaheen ninku ma makhluuqan sidan loo amaanay buu ina leeyahay aan iska dhaafno.
Sxb Geelu waa astaan somaliyeed oon marnaba innaga daba hadhayn min jabuuti ilaa iyo gaarisa min mooyale ilaa iyo bosaaso baabili ilaa iyo xeebata banaadir waxa lagu maalaya waa geel iyo xolaha kale ee ilahay inagu manaystay.

Lama siisan karo xoolo kale, sidigta Dhaameele;
Waxba yaan surweel midable iyo, saacad lay xirane,
Sicirka dunida geeleennu waa, ugu sarreeyaaye,
Soomaaligii diidayoow, waad silloon tahaye.