State Capitalism vs Socialism

[BigBreak]

Its very important to realise there is a big difference between the two concepts.

Here is a good transcript differentiating the two with some examples:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 528AAzCC7Q

[Arabman]

So, which concept is compatible with Islam?

[gurey25]

None.
Both are based on interest banking and are thus not compatible with islam

[Grant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

"History of Islamic banking
Introduction

An early market economy and an early form of mercantilism, called "Islamic capitalism", were developed between the eighth and twelfth centuries.[4] The monetary economy of the period was based on the widely circulated currency the gold dinar, and it tied together regions that were previously economically independent.

A number of economic concepts and techniques were applied in early Islamic banking, including bills of exchange, partnership (mufawada, including limited partnerships, or mudaraba), and forms of capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal),[5] cheques, promissory notes,[6] trusts (see Waqf),[7] transactional accounts, loaning, ledgers and assignments.[8] Organizational enterprises independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced during that time.[9][10] Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.[5]
Riba

The word "riba" means interest, usury, excess, increase or addition, which according to Shariah terminology, implies any excess compensation without due consideration (consideration does not include time value of money). The definition of riba in classical Islamic jurisprudence was "surplus value without counterpart", or "to ensure equivalency in real value", and that "numerical value was immaterial."

Applying interest was acceptable under some circumstances. Currencies that were based on guarantees by a government to honor the stated value (i.e. fiat currency) or based on other materials such as paper or base metals were allowed to have interest applied to them.[11] When base metal currencies were first introduced in the Islamic world, the question of "paying a debt in a higher number of units of this fiat money being riba" was not relevant as the jurists only needed to be concerned with the real value of money (determined by weight only) rather than the numerical value. For example, it was acceptable for a loan of 1000 gold dinars to be paid back as 1050 dinars of equal aggregate weight (i.e., the value in terms of weight had to be same because all makes of coins did not carry exactly similar weight).

The biggest problem with Islamic banking is that a house loan that is Shariah compliant will cost you about 2% more than a conventional bank loan.

[BigBreak]

true socialism needs to have a limited, small govt (nightwatchman state); a diversified economy and economic empowerment via decentralised, inclusive state planning and workplace democracy

[Arabman]

^Do you have to have a democratic system for a successful economy?

[Grant]

During the Cold War the Capitalist West was at least as Socialistic as the Communist world. Capitalism and some socialist principles are not incompatible. In the US we had Social Security and Medicare.

Where Socialism looses it is in the concept of a managed, or centralized economy, as in Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union. The modern Chinese are profoundly Capitalist, as are todays Russians. As a system of production, Capitalism tends to keep an economy in balance.

Democracy is another issue, altogether.

Wiki, on Islamic Democracy:

"Muslim democrats, including Ahmad Moussalli (professor of political science at the American University of Beirut), argue that concepts in the Quran point towards some form of democracy, or at least away from despotism. These concepts include shura (consultation), ijma (consensus), al-hurriyya (freedom), al-huqquq al-shar'iyya (legitimate rights). For example shura (Al Imran 3:159,[14] Ash-Shura 42:38[15]) may include electing leaders to represent and govern on the community’s behalf. Government by the people is not therefore necessarily incompatible with the rule of Islam, whilst it has also been argued that rule by a religious authority is not the same as rule by a representative of God."

[Basra-]

LOL@gurey



Yep, both of them kulaaha. gurey would love ALL of us to exist in the desert tents of surb-arabia! The sword and the bonding of Islam Brotherhood is what gives gurey orgasms. Well, fcuk that!




PS: Socialism--if properly examined, one could say, is ideal for ISLAM or CHRISTIANITY! Religion is all about helping the poor and the less fortunate. Socialism is all about that. The question is-- where do u get the funds to help this poor misfortunate people? Taxes? So, is paying Taxes haram>?