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Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:43 pm
by Estarix
Seriously though, I just don't get the point of fighting and dying for ages only to end up worse off in the long run.

I don't think anybody, even those in the most repressed countries in the world, would choose Somalia's current state over their horrific government.

You just can't come to grips with the reality you created, and in the deepest, darkest recesses of your soul, you know you were better off accepting the status quo :)
It was clear somalis as a people were not fit for government and their clan divisions and culture would have caused anarchy in some way.
somalia would have been better of with an inclusive government that developed all parts of the country,which is wishfull thinking.
But i believe the anarchy was beneficial in some ways. What somalia lacked before was buttom up approach which comprises of reconcilliaton clan relations, state building, comprimise and abillity to think on a state level and not on a clan one; somalia is now going through a natural experience;something it lacked in the past ; thats one of the benefits of the civil war.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:45 pm
by STARKAST
:lol:

4. The biggest outcome of the civil war has been the mass migration of Somalis into the Western world and having access to opportunities most would never have dreamt of

Refugees

Aren't you another dumb hutu no honor.


Dumb hutus can't just admit

A) they've been living in the middle ages for 25 years
B) they've ruined the Somali name that has impacted on even horn of Africans
C) they are worthless people

LiquidHYDROGEN that was a smart paragraph but i'd expect that from a person from a region that is a success story not the people that are the set of the walking dead
It would be a waste of my time to try and have an intelligent conversation with you. Find someone at your level ;)

Another one bites the dust btw your points were pathetic lol at unis

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:48 pm
by Based
I don't disagree with your point. Somalia was a deeply flawed state but had some measure of respect in the world. But I think we can both say that Siad Barres regime, especially in the later years, was a series of terrible blunders. It was clear that the man was not gifted in the arts of administration or war. In fact his greatest achievement was that he ever managed to get to power in the first place. I say this not as an Isaaq but as an objective student of history. You say that Somalia was much better then than it is now and I agree 100% - if you mean Xamar. But Somaliland is 100% (slight exaggeration) better today than it was under afweyne.
I can understand why some would think I'm being an apologist for the last government, but I have always stated that there were obvious deficiencies in the latter years of the government.

If Somaliland were to achieve recognition, it could easily be argued that their struggle against the government was wholly justified and worth it in the end. Even without recognition, the semblance of order and governance established by the former snm could similarly be viewed as a step in the right direction. While not exactly achieving the same status or development of the late government, at least some progress has been made in addition to ridding yourselves of a government you viewed as repressive.

The rest of em though :?

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:54 pm
by BlackVelvet
Somalia is most certainly the only nation to ever fail after overthrowing their supposedly repressive government.
1. Start with France, work your way backwards find one that was successful over night
2. Lol@ supposedly repressive, that right there is why it took so long
3. If Somalis were united among themselves there would be no need for these other Africans


It would help you tie it all in a neat ribbon if you could pretend that Somalia's problems start and end with Hawiye but the fact that you think like that in itself is evidence of how deep Somalia's problems go. 20 years still hasn't been enough.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:58 pm
by STARKAST
Xamar = hawiye only = middle age

Mamulka isaaq = peace

puntland= peace

Gedo = Peace

Ogaden = peace

hutus can't handle the facts.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:04 pm
by Based
Even if the non-Darood thinking world agreed with you, how would that change anything? When people speak from clan perspectives they're not obliged to accept anything the opposition proposes. You're pushing forward the same tired argument which is something bad is better than nothing but similarly it can be argued that nothing is better than something bad. Why don't you praise Aidiid for ridding Somalia of the regime before asking others to praise the regime for the small amount of good it did achieve?
I don't see how somebody could argue that a bad government is better than no government. North Korea, arguably the worst state in the world in terms of repression, is better off than Somalia.
Aidiid was created by Siad Barre and the same government you want us think was better than the aftermath. People are pushed to do the things they do, they don't spontaneously carry something out. If the Siad Barre regime was "not that bad" or "flawed" then people like Aidiid wouldn't exist.
I'm of the opinion that Aideed was simply mad. No other rebel movement in the entirety of human civilization managed to fuck up so badly.
Injecting clan into this is quite pointless too because one of the main reasons the USC failed was because of the Mahdi and Aidiid disagreement. Talking about the "Hawiye promised land" or what not is again pointless when it wasn't about that, if it was then that disagreement would not have occurred because they would have had the same ambitions.
So whose fault is that? Aideed's first act was to bizarelly attack his own allies instead of consolidating power like any semi-rational successful rebel. Within a matter of weeks after his victory against the horrid government, he attacked his SSDF Majerteen allies, his SPM Ogaden allies, the Abgaal,the Murusade, the Xawadle, other Habar Gidirs, and probably would have attacked the Isaaq eventually. The man was clearly a lunatic.
The thing is if the USC had created a government in which the Hawiye dominated then you would not have supported it and rightly so, you would have preferred there to be no government and anarchy instead but that did happen so maybe your interests are misplaced and not well calculated.
Most Marehans would have begrudgingly accepted a Hawiye dominated government instead of two decades of anarchy, simply because as the losing and deeply unpopular party, we would have been left no choice. All of Somalia turned against Marehan and gleefully witnessed the overthrow of MSB and the so called MOD regime. Aideed's failure to consolidate power and restrain himself against reprisal attacks led to his clinching of defeat from the jaws of complete victory.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:06 pm
by BlackVelvet
Starkast it is very difficult to have a conversation with you :snoop:


Hawiye = Mudug
Hawiye = Galgaduud
Hawiye = Hiiraan
Hawiye = Sh.Dhexe
Hawiye = Sh.Xoose
Hawiye = Jubooyinka


Xamar = Hawiye

Yes

Xamar = Conflict

but

Xamar = majority of Somalia's current wealth


If you want Somalia to be peaceful, get Xamar right, if you want Somalia to be in chaos mess with Xamar :Shrug:

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:09 pm
by Based

1. Start with France, work your way backwards find one that was successful over night
2. Lol@ supposedly repressive, that right there is why it took so long
3. If Somalis were united among themselves there would be no need for these other Africans
Once again, out of the roughly 87 coup d'etats in Africa against madmen ranging from Idi Amin to Mobutu to Bokassa to Mengistu, only the coup that overthrew MSB resulted in the world's first and only failed state.

There really is no running away from that fact.
It would help you tie it all in a neat ribbon if you could pretend that Somalia's problems start and end with Hawiye but the fact that you think like that in itself is evidence of how deep Somalia's problems go. 20 years still hasn't been enough.
Nice straw man.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:10 pm
by hydrogen
Aidiid was created by Siad Barre and the same government you want us think was better than the aftermath. People are pushed to do the things they do, they don't spontaneously carry something out. If the Siad Barre regime was "not that bad" or "flawed" then people like Aidiid wouldn't exist.
I'm of the opinion that Aideed was simply mad. No other rebel movement in the entirety of human civilization managed to fuck up so badly.
And who made him mad? Mental issues are triggered.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:16 pm
by STARKAST
:lol: I'll look past your hutu slick/insolence

Hawiye = Mudug ------- Hawiyes are nomads here
Hawiye = Galgaduud ---------- hawiyes are nomads andlawless here
Hawiye = Hiiraan ------------ xawadle are not hawiye tuulo
Hawiye = Sh.Dhexe ------------- mooryan i'll say it again mooryan inoocade
Hawiye = Sh.Xoose ------------- moooryan
Hawiye = Jubooyinka -------- minority hawiye

i picked xamar because this is a place when you have all hutu/niggers together its like friday night at soul train --- nigger extravaganza

Basically the more hawiye a area becomes the more it resembles the middle ages.............mamulka isaaq = no hawiye = peace and success. Puntland = no hawiye = peace and success.

Do you understand abgaal girl ??

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:21 pm
by STARKAST
at 100 mins of this film and it ain't all that thx fah for the link

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:22 pm
by Based
And who made him mad? Mental issues are triggered.
I'm not a psychiatrist.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:23 pm
by hydrogen
And who made him mad? Mental issues are triggered.
I'm not a psychiatrist.
Convenient.

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:24 pm
by Based
How so? :lol:

Re: Just watched "12 Years A Slave"

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:34 pm
by hydrogen
Because you're avoiding the diagnosis which is Siad Barre's regime. If you're going to assert that he had mental issues then at last admit the root cause.