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What's your logic? You want the Hawiye man to accept a Darod government, despite today we have the Darod pedalling federalism to run away from a Hawiye government? Sxbow you can't have your cake and eat it too. Adeer, arintii Somalia qabiil ay noqotay, markii loo kala baxay oo laysku oday sheegtay ayaa hadana cabaadaysaa? Now you can write pages and pages of Aideeds misfortunes but it will not take away the fact that you must leave your Marxist Daroodist agenda behind at the gates of Mogadishu when talking national politics today. Caydiid went up against the nepotism and the corruption of the regime you have just clearly vindicated for providing "a quality of life they had under his benevolent rule" i.e. the Booli qaran and the institutionalised qabyaalad, only to spawn his own version of notoriety which today has given the platform for the Hawiye to be ruling your country. In the eyes of the clannist i.e. every Somali, it's their clan and their clan first.

@ marxist daroodist.

What's your logic? You want the Hawiye man to accept a Darod government, despite today we have the Darod pedalling federalism to run away from a Hawiye government?

You're comparing the Somali Democratic Republic to today's Bantu guarded, Qatari funded, Islamist run, joke of a "government"? Really? If we accept that ludicrous comparison for a moment, are you really trying to compare a mad warlord bizarrely declaring war on every Somali clan after he successfully overthrew the government to a political dispute about the role of the central government? Really?

Sxbow you can't have your cake and eat it too. Adeer, arintii Somalia qabiil ay noqotay, markii loo kala baxay oo laysku oday sheegtay ayaa hadana cabaadaysaa? Now you can write pages and pages of Aideeds misfortunes but it will not take away the fact that you must leave your Marxist Daroodist agenda behind at the gates of Mogadishu when talking national politics today.

So what you're saying is that 20+ years of warfare, fragmentation, and a complete loss of sovereignty was worth it just to never again be beholden to "Marxist Daroodism". How about not going through all that horror and just ruling the country like every other successful rebel group in the history of mankind? You could've banned our "Marxism" without cannibalizing yourselves and the country along with it.

Caydiid went up against the nepotism and the corruption of the regime you have just clearly vindicated for providing "a quality of life they had under his benevolent rule" i.e. the Booli qaran and the institutionalised qabyaalad, only to spawn his own version of notoriety which today has given the platform for the Hawiye to be ruling your country. In the eyes of the clannist i.e. every Somali, it's their clan and their clan first.

But Caydiid brought you something worse than nepotism e.g. literally killing hundreds of thousands and creating a culture of warlordism/mooryaanimo. He legit killed/caused the deaths of tens of thousands of your people, turned your children into junkie child-soldiers, sold you a story of Darood tyranny, and in the end straight up attacked one Hawiye sub-clan after the other. As for the quality of life bit, why would you assume I meant the Kacaan government, incidentally representative of every single clan in Somalia , created an exclusively superior quality of life for one particular group? Any rational person would agree that the average Somali enjoyed a much higher quality of life prior to 1991.

You're comparing the Somali Democratic Republic to today's Bantu guarded, Qatari funded, Islamist run, joke of a "government"? Really? If we accept that ludicrous comparison for a moment, are you really trying to compare a mad warlord bizarrely declaring war on every Somali clan after he successfully overthrew the government to a political dispute about the role of the central government? Really?

Once again, you're misinformed about clan politics and you didn't understand what i meant. When Hassan Sheikh was sworn in, the first people to protest against him were your kinsfolk in Minneapolis, calling the innocent man a bloodthirsty criminal, why? Because he was a Hawiye President. Despite the fact he had done nothing to harm your people, by that token, why then, are you suprised, that a Hawiye or a Isaaq would reject the Afwayne government when it was a known propagator of the MOD alliance? Sxb in Somalia, qabiil comes before everything. Peace, stability etc comes and goes but every Somali will stand by his qabiil and his qabiils interest and just as you defend your clan whether right or wrong, so will everyone else.

So what you're saying is that 20+ years of warfare, fragmentation, and a complete loss of sovereignty was worth it just to never again be beholden to "Marxist Daroodism". How about not going through all that horror and just ruling the country like every other successful rebel group in the history of mankind? You could've banned our "Marxism" without cannibalizing yourselves and the country along with it.

Wars happen, people die, nations perish. But let a rival Darood man rule the country at the expense my clans personal influence and respect? Nah G.

But Caydiid brought you something worse than nepotism e.g. literally killing hundreds of thousands and creating a culture of warlordism/mooryaanimo. He legit killed/caused the deaths of tens of thousands of your people, turned your children into junkie child-soldiers, sold you a story of Darood tyranny, and in the end straight up attacked one Hawiye sub-clan after the other. As for the quality of life bit, why would you assume I meant the Kacaan government, incidentally representative of every single clan in Somalia , created an exclusively superior quality of life for one particular group? Any rational person would agree that the average Somali enjoyed a much higher quality of life prior to 1991.

As far as i know Caydiid got the job done when it comes to putting an end to Daroodism. No longer will there ever be wishes to make Maslax ama Cumar Masale inheritants of a Kacaan hegemony and continue the clan marginalisation of all Somalis.

And whats with the over exageration with numbers? 100,000 Hawiyes killed? I was gonna forgive you for claiming Utanga was a paradise after posting a stupid article about baadiyo clansmen-turned officers playing ping pong but this...Oh my.

Once again, you're misinformed about clan politics and you didn't understand what i meant. When Hassan Sheikh was sworn in, the first people to protest against him were your kinsfolk in Minneapolis, calling the innocent man a bloodthirsty criminal, why? Because he was a Hawiye President. Despite the fact he had done nothing to harm your people, by that token, why then, are you suprised, that a Hawiye or a Isaaq would reject the Afwayne government when it was a known propagator of the MOD alliance? Sxb in Somalia, qabiil comes before everything. Peace, stability etc comes and goes but every Somali will stand by his qabiil and his qabiils interest and just as you defend your clan whether right or wrong, so will everyone else.

Your comparison was a joke and was treated as such. Hassan Sheikh's "government" cannot in any way, shape, or form be compared to the Somali Democratic Republic. I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt for that one, but your comparison of protests/disagreement on the political model to overthrowing a relatively stable and effective government only to replace it with nearly a quarter century of anarchy was completely over the top. Reject a government all you like, hell, overthrow that motherfucker if you have to. Do you really have to reject the entire notion of government though?

Honestly, you just overthrew an incredibly unpopular government. Do you: a)replace the government or b) go apeshit and start attacking everybody. It's clear which one MSB chose in 1969 and which one Aideed chose in 1991

So what you're saying is that 20+ years of warfare, fragmentation, and a complete loss of sovereignty was worth it just to never again be beholden to "Marxist Daroodism". How about not going through all that horror and just ruling the country like every other successful rebel group in the history of mankind? You could've banned our "Marxism" without cannibalizing yourselves and the country along with it.

Wars happen, people die, nations perish. But let a rival Darood man rule the country at the expense my clans personal influence and respect? Nah G.

I'm genuinely shocked wallahi. I guess Union was right, you lot really would rather reign in hell than serve in heaven.

As far as i know Caydiid got the job done when it comes to putting an end to Daroodism. No longer will there ever be wishes to make Maslax ama Cumar Masale inheritants of a Kacaan hegemony and continue the clan marginalisation of all Somalis.

And whats with the over exageration with numbers? 100,000 Hawiyes killed? I was gonna forgive you for claiming Utanga was a paradise after posting a stupid article about baadiyo clansmen-turned officers playing ping pong but this...Oh my.

So once again, just to reiterate this point, you'd take the last 20+ years of lawlessness over living under a supposedly Darood-led government, despite openly admitting in this very thread that the average Hawiye gained nothing from the government's collapse?

Again, another

I find myself beginning to sympathize with the Somaliland cause.

I'm genuinely shocked wallahi. I guess Union was right, you lot really would rather reign in hell than serve in heaven.

I'd say No to Afwayne and No to Caydiid. Doesn't matter what positive light you try to create, people were killed, victimised and targeted for clan reasons. I don't have to pick between either. If its peace and stability you argue then we can go back to 1960 when Somalia had hope of prosperity and nation building. Im sorry sxb but i will never endorse a regime that involved cold blooded murderers like Morgan, Gaandhi, Buluq buluq, Samatar etc.

@ Quoting Union, i'm done.

Just streamed this, the scene when the Blacks meet the Native Indians said it all
One people choosing to fight to the death for their honour while the other accept slavery and get humiliated and beaten on a daily basis

But to be fair Natives had horses, some firearms and knew the land.

I never understood why Hawiyes think Aideed was some sort of hero. He literally killed/caused the deaths of more Hawiye than any other person in the entirety of Somali history.Taking into account what the average Hawiye citizen went through these past two decades, you should hate Aideed more than anybody else.

You went from being normal citizens, going to work, sending your kids to school through the tertiary level free of charge, to worrying about whether one laf of your juffo might wipe the other out overnight. He promised to free you from "tyranny" so you fought for him, killed for him, only for him to turn around and attack one Hawiye subclan after the other within literally weeks. He convinces all the Hawiye subclans to rebel, only to attack Abgaal, Murusade, Xawaadle, and in the end sections of his own subclan. He finally dies in an intra-Sacad skirmish at the hands of one of his junkie child soldiers, leaving behind a Somalia engulfed by tribal warfare, warlords, and roaming bands of teenage gunmen, bizarrely hailed as a hero by people who fled the Somalia he created.

Now that I think about it, that would actually be a great movie

@Marques - Gaandhi a murderer?

Can't believe this guy is trying to make it sound Otanga was a heaven on earth Marques
The horror stories about Otangaville would make you tear up more than a 12 year a slave.
These guys were fed bunch of bs. since they can remember. How else can you explain Otangaville being a heaven on earth

As I've said for what seems like the millionth time, Somalia has proven once and for all that a government, regardless of how flawed or supposedly repressive, is infinitely preferable to no government.

Wars happen, people die, nations perish. But let a rival Darood man rule the country at the expense my clans personal influence and respect? Nah G.

Still

Out of the frying pan into the fire has never been more apt

@Daf, Utanga was heaven compared to what Aideed did to your Abgaal after he convinced you to fight for him. Abgaals were chilling in Xamar, VP on lock, eating their mankaal and drinking their Isbarmoto (sp?), but you just had to listen to some motherfucker from Mudug out of Hawiyenimo only to have him go ham on you niggas a few weeks after he overthrew the government while importing a million HGs and hoeing you in your own city.

Aidiid AUN

P.S You can never convince anyone that MSB's government benefited the illusion called 'Somalis' when your own Marehan take pride in its nepotism.

And for those trying to paint Utango as some paradise on earth:

Why don't blacks make a movie about the successful Haiti slave revolt that resulted in the establishment of a black nation.

They would probably make a movie about that poor idiot toussaint l'overture and not mention the hero desalinas.

Toussaint wanted to be accepted by the cadaan, desalinas believed the only good white man in a dead what man.

Toaussaint died in jail in france after trying to talk to napoleon, desalinas hoisted the carcas of a white baby on a pole as his banner and commenced the externimation of all whites on the island.

Have you seen the current state of Haiti? That type of movie would only confirm that blacks are better off being enslaved.

In 1806, Haiti was diplomatically isolated. It had audaciously declared its independence two years before, after crushing the French army sent by Napoleon to re-enslave it.

But no country in the world recognized its independence. Certainly not France, which had just suffered a major blow to its fortunes and prestige. Not Spain, which still had its slave-based colonial empire in the Caribbean and Latin America. Not Great Britain, at that time the predominant world power, worried over its plantations in Jamaica, just 75 miles from Haiti, whose profits also depended on the brutal super-exploitation of enslaved Africans.

There was substantial trade between the United States and Haiti, even after the Haitian revolution ended slavery. Haiti sold coffee, molasses, sugar, cotton, hides and so on, and bought dried cod, cloth, hardware and other bulk commodities. But Thomas Jefferson, the slave-owning, slave-selling president of the United States, was terrified by the successful slave rebellion and went so far as to call Toussaint Louverture's army "cannibals."

Read up on history

@Based
Funny you call Otangaville a heaven on earth. Lining up for Qamadi in the morning and fly infested shuuro in the evening while being beating up by a kikuye. Sleeping in cooshado while the dhuudhi feasted on your toes must have felt like a 5 star resort

The Somali state was doomed when hordes of geeljire leaches arrived and sucked the state covers dry. It would be one thing if they remembered to build their region, but they thought the party was gonna last forever. Today you live in the shittiest most under developed region in Somalia.

Ceydid AUN made history by uprooting an entire D-block and put them in refugee camps. So i am not surprised he has special place in your hearts At least he didn't die inside Nigerian toilet.
You mentioned above that Eidid fought against other Hawiye tribes, but you seem to forget Afweyne went after his Daarood cousins, don't you remember how he went after the MJs? destroying the barkado, wells and carried out a mass rape against their women. Who can forget what he did to the OGs by poisoning their wells.
Another fact that is often over looked is that Afweyne was responsible for all those OGs that perished in Hiiraan. He might not be the one that pulled the trigger, but he sure gave them the rope they used to hang themselves.

@Based
Funny you call Otangaville a heaven on earth. Lining up for Qamadi in the morning and fly infested shuuro in the evening while being beating up by a kikuye. Sleeping in cooshado while the dhuudhi feasted on your toes must have felt like a 5 star resort

The Somali state was doomed when hordes of geeljire leaches arrived and sucked the state covers dry. It would be one thing if they remembered to build their region, but they thought the party was gonna last forever. Today you live in the shittiest most under developed region in Somalia.

Ceydid AUN made history by uprooting an entire D-block and put them in refugee camps. So i am not surprised he has special place in your hearts At least he didn't die inside Nigerian toilet.
You mentioned above that Eidid fought against other Hawiye tribes, but you seem to forget Afweyne went after his Daarood cousins, don't you remember how he went after the MJs? destroying the barkado, wells and carried out a mass rape against their women. Who can forget what he did to the OGs by poisoning their wells.
Another fact that is often over looked is that Afweyne was responsible for all those OGs that perished in Hiiraan. He might not be the one that pulled the trigger, but he sure gave them the rope they used to hang themselves.

Based is sometimes too simple and naive for his own good. The only thing that can make him write passages with such strong emotion is whenever Aideed is mentioned. Once again he will ignore the names of top elitist criminals like Morgan and others who have done the most unspeakable crimes in Somali history, i mean were they not the first people to attack Mogadishu when the USC declared victory in January 26? What was the "peace-loving" Siad Barre doing when Somalia celebrated that historic hour? Thats right, he was regrouping with clan militia and killed everything along the way, very "presidential" of him. What happened to "aabihii garashada", "macalinka kacaanka", what happened to "qabiil qaran aa ka weyn"? No Hawiye took up a gun against a Hawiye until atleast 6 months after when Siyaadism was buried forever.

Based, Caydiid caused you a lot of heart ache no one ever asked you to glorify him, but Caydiid exposed Papa Afwaynes clan agenda, that can never be hidden. A government being better than no government doesnt mean we should put up with a reputed Darood mafia-esque regime, if it takes a civil war to permanently eradicate those ilk in the hope that Somalia comes out stronger in the future then so be it. Who today can you ever convince to accept a regime with the likes of Morgan, Gaani, Buluq Buluq and Samatar? Don't be silly to think Somalia was stable until January 1991, there was war ravaging the North, Mudug, clans being displaced everywhere in the south etc.

Praise a man that sent you into exile making your family refugees in foreign lands brehs
Choose total chaos and anarchy over stability and quality of life brehs